What Does It Take To Lead When No One Picks You

Some careers are straight lines. Terence Harmon’s is a fight through storms—boot camp setbacks, a fraternization hit that torpedoed his first run at MA, a year in Gitmo during riots—and a steady climb back built on mentorship, discipline, and no-nonsense leadership. We dive into how a country kid from Talladega found his footing on a destroyer, got his pride checked by a tough BM2, and turned into the kind of deck plate leader who lifts standards and people at the same time.

From Japan port ops and the immediate shock of 9/11 to the long nights on Charleston gates, Terence explains what changed when security became a warfighting function. He takes us inside Guantanamo Bay’s hardest days, missing advancement by points, and the perspective that gave him as a leader who knows what it feels like when the system overlooks you. Then comes the pivot—a Sailor of the Year nod at the brig, making chief on terminal leave, and choosing the hard way back to sea on FDNF Ashland. The Chiefs’ Mess rebuilt a culture the old way: clean programs, relentless reps, and a simple rule—no re-dos. It worked.

We follow Terence through a staff tour at NECC that turned into a breakout eval, his selection to Master Chief and the CMC program, a greenside tour with Third Medical Battalion in Okinawa, and finally Bahrain, where he leads brilliant ITs and ETs in an information warfare world far from his MA roots. Along the way, he shares the rules that lasted: let no one tell you no; take the jobs that decide outcomes; don’t be your sailors’ friend—be their leader; and trust the process when it gets messy, because storms are part of the route.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in “traffic,” wondered how to bounce back after a bad call, or needed a template for turning a team into a standard, this conversation delivers. Subscribe, share with a shipmate, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what storm are you fighting through right now?

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Transcript

Opening And Shiproom Memories

Gary Wise 0:28

Hey everybody, how are we doing? Welcome back. Yeah, once again, words from the wise. Looking forward to bringing another great conversation to y'all. Authentic leadership. And today I got a real one in the room. I got my man, he's a USS Ashland veteran. Uh, he's been down with me since I mean 2000, I believe it's 18, but it might have been 16. We gotta we gotta follow up on that. My man Big T Terrence Harmon. T, what's good, man?

Terence Harmon 0:55

What's up, brother? How you doing, man?

Gary Wise 0:56

I'm I'm good. I mean, I kind of lost my years for a second. Were we on Ashland in 2016?

Terence Harmon 1:03

Yeah, I got there 15, and uh uh Steve Brunder had the gun, and then you came in 16.

Gary Wise 1:08

Yeah, yeah, bro. It's we we've been knowing each other for like nine years now.

Terence Harmon 1:12

Yeah, yeah, man.

Gary Wise 1:14

Top flies, man. Tom flies. That's crazy. It don't feel like it was that long ago.

Terence Harmon 1:20

Yep.

Gary Wise 1:24

It doesn't feel like it was that. This is the actually that's the USS Ashland's Eastwas pennant. Uh that after I left Ashland, Pat German and Steve Watson sent that to me. That's the one that we actually lowered, right? And then raised it up again. And you were my Eastwast coordinator, I believe, right?

Terence Harmon 1:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Talladega Roots And Family Loss

Gary Wise 1:49

Bro, I never forget when I had to go up and tell the captain we were lowering the pennant. He was at the time that CEO, he was just like, What do you mean? I'm like, bro, sir, the program is defunct, it's not a thing. We're gonna fix it. But step one is admitting we got a problem, that's it, that's it, and sending a message to the crew that we're not gonna misrepresent uh what we say we about. Oh that ship right there, bro. We'll get into it, I'm sure. But we we put a clinic on, we put a clinic on on Ashley, man, for sure. Remember that? All right, big T Horman man. Uh Terrence, you are you born and raised in Alabama?

Terence Harmon 2:34

Correct, Talladega, Alabama, man.

Gary Wise 2:37

Talladega, Alabama. So looking back on your childhood coming up, is Talladega a big city, or is it like medium, or is it like country?

Terence Harmon 2:47

Country, the country. Blink, you got hey, you you're missing everything if you blink. All we have is the speedway. Talladega 500, that's all we have.

Gary Wise 2:55

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so a lot of the community is it got jobs at the speedway? Is it a lot of people that have worked there, or is that really the people that live there don't really mess with it? And it's more about people that come from out of town.

Terence Harmon 3:08

Yeah, more people come out of town. We have a lot of mills there, such as uh Kimberly Clark, George Pacific, uh Crown Textile, things of that nature.

Gary Wise 3:16

Do you know how your family got to Talladega? Like, how do they end up in that part of Alabama? Were they they always just been there since the beginning of your family's history? Or did they move there?

Terence Harmon 3:27

Yeah, the family, uh Harmon family, born, born and raised right there in Talledeck, Alabama.

Gary Wise 3:32

Okay, so I mean you got deep roots.

Terence Harmon 3:34

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.

Gary Wise 3:37

And all your family's Alabama fans, or you got some Auburn fans up in there?

Terence Harmon 3:42

Die Hard Bama fans. Die Hard Bama fans.

Gary Wise 3:46

Okay, no, so no civil war between Bama and Auburn at your house.

Terence Harmon 3:50

No, not at all. Not at all, brother.

Gary Wise 3:53

What is it about your that part of Alabama being Alabama fans? Is it just like the location? Is it the culture of Alabama? Like, what was it that and and I say this because I know how much of a being an Alabama fan is a big part of your life, right? Like you are really about that life. You and Jeff Brooks were two of the people that I first met that was like serious about college football, college sports in general, but really college football.

Terence Harmon 4:20

Right. Uh, I would say, um, like you said, is you're either gonna be an Auburn or a Bama fan. I think most of the uh Auburn fans was uh when Bo Jackson was there, you know. When Bo Jackson was running ball for Auburn, but uh my dad just strictly raised us Bama fans, you know. Me growing up as an old child, so that's all I knew. That's all I knew is Bama, Bama, Bama.

Gary Wise 4:40

So you you say you're an only child?

Terence Harmon 4:42

Oh yeah, only one.

Gary Wise 4:44

Did you have like a lot of cousins in your in your area of Talladega?

Terence Harmon 4:48

Oh yeah, plenty of cousins, yeah. Yeah, we did, yeah.

Gary Wise 4:52

So so growing up as a kid, did you have like a big family where y'all did a lot of stuff together, or was it really just you, your mom, and your dad kind of just functioning in the house?

Terence Harmon 5:02

No, like so on the weekends, yeah, I would go hang out with my cousins or whatever. Yeah, so like the country part, the country part of Alabama, it was you know, a lot of kids growing up down there. So I did grow up with a lot of kids around, not having brothers and sisters, and um, my parents kind of had me at an older age. My parents had me at 41. Both of them were 41, both of them were born in 1936. So, you know, yeah.

Gary Wise 5:23

That's interesting. Well, do you know the story behind what caused them to have children later in life? Did they get married later in life?

Terence Harmon 5:32

Dated for a long time, and yeah, they did get married later in life. Yeah, I was born in 75, man.

Gary Wise 5:39

I mean, because I think about it right now, I'm 48, Lincoln is 11. Man, if I would have had my first kid of 41, like my parenting style would have been completely different, right? Yeah, by me when I was 29 when I had hated. Uh so growing up with older parents, you think that was an advantage, or do you think that was a disadvantage? Do you have a perspective on that?

Terence Harmon 6:02

Uh I've always been told I was an old soul, so that I kind of think it was an advantage made me you know mature, you know, at an early age. I lost my parents at an early age. Well, not my my my dad, but I lost my mom at an early age. I lost her in 11th grade in 92. So you figure I was born in 75 and lost her in 92.

Gary Wise 6:21

Damn, was it was that all were you caught off guard when she passed, or was it something y'all kind of saw coming because of medical?

Terence Harmon 6:29

Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Uh heart attack, man. I had a heart attack in 93. I done a year at Troy State University and went on and joined the Navy in '94.

Gary Wise 6:39

Okay, so here you are in high school. In high school, what is your thing? Are you big into sports? Are you big into athletics? Or are you more into like talking to the girls? Like, because what year, what year you said what year were you in high school again?

Terence Harmon 6:54

92. I was a junior in high school. It was spring break. I I remember just like yesterday, Gary. Um, spring break. We had a a spring baseball game going on and woke up that morning. So it's called midnights. I think we call it great. I think you know, now they call it graveyard shift. But my dad worked at Kimberly Clark, and he had um he had midnight, we called it midnights, and he um got off and came home. And I was getting up, getting ready to get up to get ready for the game. And he just came in, like, what's wrong with my wife? What's wrong with my wife? She was just laying there in bed, man. She was gone. Oh man, that's yeah.

Gary Wise 7:25

You know, sometimes that in my mind, something like that, you just gotta give that to God, man, because it just ain't no other answer, you know what I'm saying? Ain't no other, ain't no other way to make sense of it. And uh my heart goes out to him because I couldn't imagine walking in finding my wife, you know. Oh my god. Um, right. And hey, how did you and him recover from that going forward? Did that make y'all stronger together, or was that did that add complication in y'all's relationship?

Terence Harmon 7:58

Um, well, we were always close, you know. Uh uh, mama's boy, and and pretty much daddy's boy, you know. Um, it it made us a little a little bit closer, but I mean, right after then, I just went on off to the navy, you know, because I had my high school girlfriend, I will have high school girlfriend pregnant. I was like, okay, I gotta do something for this guy, you know. I'm not gonna be no deadbeat around here, and I would only join. I've done that year.

Gary Wise 8:21

But you said you went to college first, right?

Terence Harmon 8:23

Right, done a year at Troy State University, and wasn't doing nothing in school, wasn't doing anything in school, and uh so when I was like, Yeah, let me join this navy.

Gary Wise 8:33

So for your girlfriend and y'all having a baby, did that happen while you were at Troy State, or did that happen while you were still in high school?

Terence Harmon 8:40

It was in so I was coming out of high school, but she was a junior, she was behind me, so it was her senior year, and I was at Troy State. Yeah, okay. So I was at Troy State when he was born, and that's your oldest baby, that's your oldest son. Right, he's 31 now.

Gary Wise 8:56

That's crazy, right? Hey, I got a son who's about to be 18 years old, man. And I'm just like, bruh, bruh, what do you do with an adult child, man? Yeah, yeah. Say it again.

Terence Harmon 9:12

I remember yours when he was like six or seven. Oh, bro.

Gary Wise 9:15

Yeah, it's you know time is fine. Life is life, and bro. Life is life. So you got you have your baby, you have a son, you're recognizing that Troy State's not doing what did you hope Troy State was gonna be?

Terence Harmon 9:30

So this is how it happened, man. My um backstory. My mom worked at the Alabama Institute for Deaf and Blind, Helen Keller, right? So that's in Alabama as well. That's right there in Talledig, Alabama. So she used to work for the Chancellor, Dr. Jack Hawkins. He was the chancellor at um Alabama Institute for Deaf and Blind. Okay, he took over the Chancellor at Choice State. So I had a free ride down there because he kept her, she kept his kids, you know. You know, coming up in the south back then, keeping kids, and that gave me a free ride. But I was partying, wasn't doing anything, you know. Lost, I had lost her, so reckless. I was reckless. Wasn't doing anything, you know, I wasn't thinking about no school or anything, just out there partying. A little 18-year-old going to Auburn, going to uh Leeds, all these places, just traveling around with you know, other young kids down there. I was like, this ain't it for me when I knew I could do it. And I got a son coming.

Gary Wise 10:21

So what made you think? Did you just instantly think maybe?

Terence Harmon 10:29

I tried the Air Force. I tried the Air Force. Uh they wouldn't accept. I don't know why they wouldn't accept me because I know I cut a I cut like a 72 on the ads, valve. It was something that they wouldn't accept. And I know I had done four, you know, you do the four years of high school, four years of ROT and ROTC in high school, but I definitely just didn't want to go Army. I knew I could have got into the Army and because all of ours in Alabama are right together. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. Damn sure went going to the Marines. So I was like, all right, let's do the Navy.

Gary Wise 10:58

So you when you were in high school, you did the JROTC program.

Terence Harmon 11:02

Oh, yeah, done four years, four years straight.

Gary Wise 11:04

Four years, okay. Army and so that that definitely is an advantage for you going into the military because you got an idea kind of already how that works, okay? Exactly. And you come in with a little bit higher of rank, as long as you pick the right service, right? If you best try to go to the Marine Corps, they only go, they only go give you E2, right? Right, they hardcore, man. But if you come to the army or to the navy, they'll give you E3. And you said you went to the Air Force first, and for whatever reason that didn't pan out, then Navy was your second choice because you didn't want to do the army, right? Right, right. What was it about the army you didn't like? Was it just the thought of like camping out in tents and sleeping outside?

Terence Harmon 11:43

No, I was used to that because I mean, just growing up, you know, I was a country boy in the woods anyway. I think it was just the four years of doing it in high school, just wanted to try something different in the Navy.

Gary Wise 11:52

Yeah, because I'll be honest with you, man. For me, my dad was the Navy, which is one piece, but the other piece was I I would get taken camping as a kid and all that. And for me, it wasn't that much fun, man. Because we didn't have no damn money to do it right.

Terence Harmon 12:05

We was right, right.

Gary Wise 12:07

Like it was horrible. Like we sweeping a tent for what, bro? Like it's a tent, whatever. Let's just go home. So for me, when I was looking at the different branches to join, what one of the things that I like, besides the fact the recruiter got to me first, right? That the recruiter got me, but it was I enjoyed the idea there was gonna be hot water and showers and stuff, right? Okay, so you get to the recruiter, you get to join the navy, did you leave right away, or did you have to wait a while to go?

Terence Harmon 12:37

Um let's see, that school that that that summer, I mean that year was out in what like May of April? I left in December. Yeah. Once I got all the paperwork and all my paperwork stuff was right, yeah. Yeah, I left in December, December 19th, actually. Well, December 12th. So my actual date's December 19th.

Gary Wise 12:58

So when you shipped out, you had your baby already, and but was you and the baby's mom, were y'all married, or y'all still with just boyfriend, girlfriend, or just boyfriend, girlfriend, okay, boyfriend and girlfriend. Um all right, and so you go to boot camp. Where'd you go to boot camp at Chicago? It's Great Lakes, Chicago, and you went in '95, you said might as well say 1950. Yeah, yeah. Bro, 1994. The things I was doing in 1994, right? Bro, that was a great time. That was a great time to be alive, right? I remember, I remember the chronic album was banging, pocket full of stones, UGK was hitting the Minister Society soundtrack, period, right? Like the early 90s was wild, man. And here you are going to boot camp in Chicago, right? Crucial conflict, twister, all that. Were you excited to be going to Chicago?

Terence Harmon 13:54

Well, actually, we used to go up there every summer because my father had a brother up there. So he is he had two brothers up there, actually. So I knew the area, we would go every summer, so yeah.

Gary Wise 14:04

How was that then going to Chicago in the summers from Alabama? Was that you? But you have cousins up there too?

Terence Harmon 14:10

Oh, yeah, got first cousins up there, man. So yeah, we had I had family in Chicago and Detroit. So my mom had sisters in Detroit, and my my dad had brothers in Chicago, so we would always make that ride, you know, a 12-hour ride in a little ugly thunderbird. Yeah, I'd never forget that, man.

Gary Wise 14:26

Oh, that's that's that's heritage right there, though, bro. That's heritage making that drive, you know. And I think honestly, I think a lot of Americans are looking to go back to that because those flights are a little suspicious, right? Dealing with the airports and all that, it's almost better just to jump in your car and ride it out and be in control of your own of your own time speed distance, right? Oh man, but I again I just think about what a difference you you know, going in the summers to a city like Chicago in the late 80s, in the early 90s from Alabama. Did that have a like would you come back to Alabama with a little different swagger?

Terence Harmon 15:07

Would you come back with a little different like pep in your step because you've been up for yeah, you tried you'd lose it like within two or three weeks once you get back to that country dirt, man? Okay, you'd lose it. But you think about it, you know, no Google maps or nothing back then. You you use the actual map to know where to turn right or left, you know? No Syria, nothing. So, yeah. So you think back on that, you know, like yeah, it's crazy.

Boot Camp Lessons And Undesignated Start

Gary Wise 15:29

It is crazy, man. That's a that's a that and that's such a big, like, I think shift. I grew up in a city environment, urban environment, and I would go to the country to see my cousins in the in the country in the summers, and I would bring this different energy that they was all interested in too, because they're watching TV, they're watching music videos, whatever it is, and that's the way I talk, that's the way that I walk, that's the way that I swing. And so I can see you going up there and just and again, that's a crazy time to be in those cities, right? That's a crazy time to be around that energy, and then to have that be first family, right? Yeah, that's a connection for you. Um, and then of course, me knowing you and knowing the swag you bring, because you don't just bring country, you bring you got you're you you're you got a lot of experience, right?

Terence Harmon 16:17

Right.

Gary Wise 16:18

Okay, uh so when you get to boot camp, uh was that your first time on a plane?

Terence Harmon 16:24

Um yeah, actually it was. Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 16:30

Bro, it's so common. That's so common for so many of us that enlisted that that's like the first time on the plane, and it just, in my opinion, it just goes to show our generation, right? Because when we were younger, planes wasn't quite as easy as it is today. Um, it was more like the wealthy had a plane, right? The wealthy would go on a plane, the the regular folks was driving, and then a lot of us that was a big step into a new world is we're going to on an airplane with people. Did you go to boot camp with people from Alabama as well?

Terence Harmon 17:03

Uh actually, a lot of them were from Chicago and um Cali. I remember a couple guys from Cali. Yeah, a lot of them in Georgia. For some reason, a lot of Georgia guys, man. Always a lot of Georgia guys.

Gary Wise 17:17

So when you left for maps, though, to go to boot camp, you was the only one going that day, or was there other people going with you?

Terence Harmon 17:24

No, so my MEPS was uh from Talladigo. I actually our MEPS is in uh Montgomery in the Capitol. So yeah, so that's where we went. Um, but a lot of them were going Army, a lot of them didn't go Navy.

Gary Wise 17:35

Okay. Uh when you get to boot camp, how do you remember that period in time? You know, that little two, three month period. Was that was that time well spent? Was you just getting through it? You didn't really care for it, did it meet your expectations?

Terence Harmon 17:53

Oh man, I was a warrior in boot camp, man. Uh I actually I think I got asthma twice, man, with with uh I was yeah, bad, man. Because we had the um we had the you know how the integration was, we had the uh females above us, and I would never forget, I'd never forget uh sneaking up there with the females or something. I got asthma'd once. It's bad. It's bad, man. I can imagine I'll put it to you like this. I went in December, I didn't come out until April.

Gary Wise 18:25

Bro, but you know, here you are, you got a girl back home with a baby, and you at Boo Kip hollering at the chicks, getting asthma back because you over there putting your dimples on them. But hey man, I get it, bro. Different zip codes, right? Different areas codes, whatever you want to call it. Make the moves, okay. Uh asthmoed a few times, but you didn't, it's not like you didn't mind being there. No, right?

Terence Harmon 18:52

No, because I knew it was gonna, I mean, eventually I was gonna get out. I mean, and after that, I went straight to Sieman ATD school, you know, because I didn't choose a rate there. I didn't choose, I went straight to I I guess I knew I was going to deck, you know.

Gary Wise 19:04

Oh so when you went to the Navy, you didn't you went undesignated from the jump, right?

Terence Harmon 19:10

Right. That everything told me nothing about hey, I guess I was one of those uh just go, you know. I didn't choose a rate or anything.

Gary Wise 19:20

Okay, well, and of course, you didn't have the mentorship from someone to give you that advice going into it, right? You was just going in, and and look, they saw they they I was told because of my criminal background, I wasn't qualified, which I now know that's not really true. It was just the easiest path to get me to say okay to undesignate it, right?

Terence Harmon 19:39

And make that quote for him to make that quota, yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 19:42

Yeah, but but on the reverse, whatever life it is what it is. So you get through boot camp and you go, you stay at Great Lakes to do your semen training, right?

Terence Harmon 19:53

Uh it was called ATD, advanced, what was that? Age advanced training. Yep, yep. I stayed on up there.

Gary Wise 19:59

ATD. Okay, bro. Is it dark there already in Barray?

Terence Harmon 20:03

Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's getting dark. It's 1720 there. Can you see me?

Gary Wise 20:06

Bro, you need to get squatter or something, bro. I can barely see you now.

Terence Harmon 20:10

Okay, let me see.

Gary Wise 20:11

Let me go. Yeah, you gotta get some light, homie. Otherwise, I'm gonna be trying to get no no.

Terence Harmon 20:16

I go around to my man cave.

Gary Wise 20:19

Oh, yeah, go to your man cave, bro. Let's check this. Yeah, let's see that. For everyone that's listening to the sound of my voice, Terrence is dialing in right now from the kingdom of Bahrain, where he is currently serving our country. And we'll get to that later, of course. Uh, but for him, it is for you, it's Sunday right now, right? No, Saturday. It's Saturday for you, okay.

Terence Harmon 20:45

Right. There you go, bro. See me now? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I can see you better. Cool, cool, cool. You about the walking back? Uh can you say hi to her?

Gary Wise 20:58

Hi, Michelia. How you doing?

Terence Harmon 21:01

Hey, Gary. How are you?

Gary Wise 21:07

I you know what? I'm getting taller every day. Life is good.

Terence Harmon 21:10

Life is good. That's right.

Gary Wise 21:12

It is it really is. Life is life is amazing.

Terence Harmon 21:15

Yeah, that's good to hear.

Gary Wise 21:18

How are you doing? You doing good?

Terence Harmon 21:19

I am doing well, yeah.

Gary Wise 21:22

Enjoying my I know y'all are y'all out there just living your best life. T says y'all never come back. What the heck? But what hey, you know what? Y'all ain't the only ones, right? People learn how to make it work over there. Oh, yeah, definitely, bro. Definitely. Hey, and not everybody wants to do it, so go for it, right?

Terence Harmon 21:42

Right.

Gary Wise 21:43

Yeah, not everybody wants to go do the job.

Terence Harmon 21:46

Yeah, yeah. She's about to walk the dog, man.

Gary Wise 21:50

So all right. Well, be careful out there.

Terence Harmon 21:53

All right.

First Shore Duty And Tough Leadership

Gary Wise 21:55

All right, T. So you're in boot camp, you come out of boot camp, you go to undesignated. Siemen training, uh coming out of Semen ATD. Did you get orders right out the gate?

Terence Harmon 22:07

Uh yeah, believe it or not, man. Out of can you see me, Gary?

Gary Wise 22:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see you. Okay. Can you see me? Hey, is that when you got orders to the Moose Burger?

Terence Harmon 22:17

No, no, no, no. So this is what happened, man. Out of 50, out of 50 guys, right? I was the only one to get shore duty. I went to Naval Weapon Station Charleston first.

Gary Wise 22:28

Okay. Right. Naval Weapon Station Charleston in Virginia. Charleston. Charleston. Charleston, South Carolina. South Carolina. South Carolina. South Carolina. I'm sorry. South Carolina. Okay, so you got shore duty as an undesignated seaman.

Terence Harmon 22:43

Yeah.

Gary Wise 22:44

At 19 years. Are you 19 yet?

Terence Harmon 22:47

Uh that was 94. So was that? Yeah, 19 years old.

Gary Wise 22:52

Okay. How was that for you at 19 years old landing in South Carolina with a steady job, living in the barracks, right? Was South Carolina was it lit? Was it off the chain out there?

Terence Harmon 23:05

Oh, yeah, it was lit, man. Because uh, so the base was going through the um if if people are not familiar with the brack is that's the base realignment enclosure, right? So it was going through the brack, right? So they put us in the office quarters. So just saying for 19-year-old in the office quarters, uh, just had brought a little uh Jeep Cherokee. Uh but my job was it, it had nothing to do with the navy. My job was base beautification team. I was a glorified grass cutter. That's all I did. Cut grass.

Gary Wise 23:36

Well, you know, I mean, that's sure to be right. They I actually think those kinds of jobs is not bad for sailors because it number one, it saves us money on playing government employees forever, and number two, you actually got something you can do on the reverse, like you said, it ain't teaching you nothing you're gonna use in the future of your career, right? Um but you're getting a steady paycheck, you're killing some time. Did you did you have good leadership that first period of time?

Terence Harmon 24:05

No, no, not at all.

Gary Wise 24:07

No, no, no, it just because you didn't really have anyone that cared about your job, they was just they was all focused on other stuff, or what?

Terence Harmon 24:16

Oh, it was it was pretty wild back then, man. So, you know, those were the days where still a little lock uh a little bit of racial tensions back then, you know. 94 was uh still rough time, you know. Um yeah, tell you what to do and going about your business, you know. That was a lot of boats was down there, so it was like a boat house. So they had uh boats, um, you know, like small craft, a lot of real boats to work on um tugboats, things of that nature down there. So uh they would tell you what to do.

Gary Wise 24:45

Were you working for boats? Were you working for Bosa mates but that were tasking you to go cut grass?

Terence Harmon 24:52

Bosa mates, electricians, um SHs, it was everything out there. Yeah.

Gary Wise 24:59

What were the boats there for? Were they training people to do things on boats? Is that why the boats were there?

Terence Harmon 25:05

Or was it for like the base security? So no, like Dogmaster, like Dogmaster boats, like you know, the tugs whenever ships come in, because you know, you still have the Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara there, the front cable, all those used to be there. So we would, you know, we would be the ones who hook up to them and tell them how to you know bring them in. We would bring them in whenever they come out from out to sea.

Gary Wise 25:23

So, like port operations type stuff, right? Right, right. Okay, so that's why you're really there. It's just they were using you as like TDY to do all the other random jobs that the base needed to get done, and you were just as an undesignated seaman, you were just low man on the total boat. Go cut grass, Armin. Right, right. Okay, I get that. Right. So, how long are you there for? Is that a two-year billet?

Terence Harmon 25:48

Yeah, that would have been my first two years there. Yeah, I should have been there from 94 to 96.

Gary Wise 25:54

You should have been there.

Terence Harmon 25:55

Did you leave earlier or did you do the whole time there? So it's where it gets funny, man. So I went to, you know, whenever a base closes, they'll let you choose any A school you want to go to, right? Right. So I went to Master Arms A School. Made it. What made school out of there? Yeah, should have been automatic third, man.

Gary Wise 26:17

So hold on, you went to MAA school, should have been an automatic third. Why were you not?

Terence Harmon 26:23

But well, not asthmo, but got kicked out of A school.

Gary Wise 26:29

So you're down in Texas going to MA school to become a law enforcement officer in the United States Navy, and back then there wasn't a lot of MA on MA3s, right? So that was an opportunity.

Terence Harmon 26:44

Yeah, the the MA the MA rate used back then used to be 2,500. Whereas now we're probably 50,000 after 9-11.

Gary Wise 26:51

Yeah, so but so it was an opportunity for you to get in so junior, but you didn't sound like a you you appreciated that opportunity. So you was down there doing something you weren't supposed to be doing, or what?

Terence Harmon 27:05

Yeah, fraternization.

Gary Wise 27:08

What fraternization? What do you what do you mean? Like just dating someone older than you?

Terence Harmon 27:13

Uh instructor.

Gary Wise 27:14

Okay, so you know how to the instructor and you hooked up whatever it was, the chain of command found out, and both y'all got cracked.

Terence Harmon 27:27

Uh no, I got cracked, but they didn't get cracked.

Gary Wise 27:31

What? Yeah, the instructor didn't get in trouble, but you did, but they're senior to you, probably.

Terence Harmon 27:37

Yeah, oh yeah, way senior to me. Yeah, yeah.

MA School Fraternization Fallout

Gary Wise 27:43

Okay, so that's incredible to me. So you get in trouble with fraternization, and I'll tell you, man, fraternization was my least favorite thing when I was in the military, right? Like I hated dealing with it, I hated dealing with it. And even today, though, bro, like I as a high school teacher, I talk to my students. I'm like, can y'all please not date inside the battalion? Because it gets so messy, bro. Like, it gets so messy. And then, but but the difference is that we don't really have rules, it's just messy, right? In the military, we we know we got rules, but then people, you know, they they do what they're gonna do, and then unfortunately, leaders gotta handle their business and hold the line. But I I remember looking back on my career, I had the most drama around fraternization than anything else, like like for real. That was like the number one challenge that I had to deal with. Uh when you were looking at that back then, when you got in trouble, were you angry that you got in trouble and that person didn't?

Terence Harmon 28:51

Oh, yeah, because it was eight weeks. It was the week of graduation. My MA school back then was eight weeks. Oh, yeah, hell yeah. I was in, yeah.

Gary Wise 28:58

Yeah, yeah, that's that's crazy, man. Um look looking back on it now through the lens of you at doing a whole career. Does it make sense to you now, or they just all the way, they were just all the way doing it dirty? Because I'll tell you, it sounded to me dirty. It sounded to me dirty. No, no, no, that was dirty.

Terence Harmon 29:16

That was dirty. I mean, yeah, both of us should have got hammed up.

Gary Wise 29:19

Yeah, for sure. At a minimum, both of y'all should have got and and that person should have got held more accountable because they're the senior in that thing, right? They both know better, and they in the position of responsibility as an instructor, right? Not only are they a higher rank, but uh but instructor, all right. So you get busted down, you lose your rate, you go, but now you get sent to the fleet as an undesignated E3, right? USS Moose Burger, and that's when you go. I I always remember the name Moose Burger, yeah. Yeah, whatever you would tell me about you was on the USS Mooseburger. I always remember that ship. What kind of a ship was the USS Mooseburger? D D original DD. D. D. Okay. Uh and were they out of Virginia? Mayport. Okay, so Mayport, not bad. Uh, who else do we know that was on the moose burger with you back then? Uh not was Ty was Ty Giles on the Mooseburger?

Terence Harmon 30:21

Well, he was on the he was on the Doyle, he was right beside me.

Gary Wise 30:24

Okay, so he was on the Doyle because I knew him and his little brother went down there.

Terence Harmon 30:28

Right, right.

Gary Wise 30:29

Yeah, I got him coming on here pretty soon. I think he's on this week, as a matter of fact. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Ty gonna be a good one, man. Yeah, Ty gonna be a good one. All right, so you're on the Moose Burger, you're on a D D, you're in you're in Duval, right? Duval County now. You've been you've been in the Navy a little while, you know, but it's your first ship, correct? Right? Um, how are you when you get to the ship? Are you just kind of angry because you know you've gone through this whole cut and grass thing? Now you done went through all this training to become an MA, but they got you on the ship being an undesignated seaman. Uh, how how what's your headspace like? Are are you thinking about getting just getting out of the Navy?

Terence Harmon 31:12

No, actually I wasn't because I knew I had to provide for him. So and in the MA world, you know, coming through the school back then, they taught you a little bit about the ships and you know how to read the soaps and everything. So I had read up a little bit. Um, I've always you you know me, man. I've always been one who always tried to get ahead and you know be ahead of the game. So I knew what to expect, you know, and you go on the deck, you're always gonna have somebody try to take you under the wing. And I always had streets marks, so I fit in just perfectly. I thought it went okay. It went well for me. I spent fucking what 96 to 2000 on there. So I've done four years on there, damn near four deployments.

Gary Wise 31:50

Okay, so when you're you get to the ship, how was your sponsorship or your first 72 hours? Do you remember that? Like, did you get a good reception when you got to the ship, or did you not really require a lot? Like, because you probably had a car. Were you living on the ship at that time?

Terence Harmon 32:06

Yeah, I was. I was.

Gary Wise 32:08

How long did you live on the ship before you moved out of town?

Terence Harmon 32:11

Uh, two years because that's when I met my the first wife. I had met her in Charleston when I was in Charleston, and I married her in '98. Yeah, I married her in '98. So I remember moving to Bay Meadows.

Gary Wise 32:23

Okay, so you didn't like move out with some friends or some boys and have some place to stay out in town. You stayed on the ship until you got married and got your own spot.

Terence Harmon 32:32

Right. I mean, I yeah, I always had a place to go and stay. You know, we would always have a place to go kick it, you know.

Gary Wise 32:37

Yeah, I mean, back when we were young living on the ship, I'll tell you what, I would do whatever I could to not go back to the boat. Man, like I don't I I damn near was sleep, and we were in we were in Sasebo, Japan, and we'd be sleeping in the in the barracks, uh lounges on the couches until they make us leave, right? Because we got to the ship. We would we would house up the lounges and tell the people at the barracks, go back to your room, partner. We got this. This is all that's it, right?

Terence Harmon 33:04

That's it, man.

Gary Wise 33:05

Yeah, so okay. When you look back on the moose burger, uh, that period of your of your life, four years. Did you go? Did you could go from there to like BM2?

Terence Harmon 33:17

Yep. I got mad. I got capped back then. I got capped to BM2.

Gary Wise 33:22

Okay, why'd you end up striking Bosa Mate? Why did you not try to go into another rate? Or did you just decide you liked what the bosomates what they were doing?

Terence Harmon 33:30

So I took the I took the RM test once, struck out on that, and turned around and took the BM3 test that that after that next six months. What was it? Was it 996, right? Or was it 669? Hell, I forgot something like that. And made BM3 and stayed on there one more year. I was mapped, I was capped. Yeah. So you know, Dex is a tight knit of guys, those guys are tight knit.

USS Mosberger Mentors And Growth

Gary Wise 33:54

So oh, I know, I know, man. I was talking to JB the other day, and I've got uh another Mosa mate, retired Bosa May master chief coming on this show here pretty soon, who changed my career. And I will tell you, as a DC man, I was raised, I mean, I was raised by I tell people I was raised by chief petty officers and LDOs, right? And then when I look back on the rates that really raised me, besides it wasn't really the engineering rates, right? Because as a D seaman, the engineers didn't really give a damn about D seamen. Uh for me, it was Bosa mates, SHs, right, MSs. Because in the duty section, these guys really appreciated what I brought to the conversation as duty fire marshal, right? Like they get when I made Sailor of the Year, I tell people the engineers ranked me number three. Everybody else ranked me number one, right? Because engineers had some hate in their heart, right? They weren't trying to see no DC them and be good because they wanted their MMs to be good or their EM to be good, but those topside rates really took good care of me, and then I got mad respect for the Bosemate community because of the way they really represent each other, right? Like they they always take good care of me, and the leadership is strong in that race because like like the DC men DC three is get a lot of responsibility because you'd be like a repair locker, uh fire party leader, a scene leader, a duty fire marshal. Well, boat in the in the deck world, BM3 running seamen, right? They they they run in seamen, boats. Matter of fact, BMSN running seamen, right? You get the name boats, you got leading seamen, leading seamen. I look at the I tell I said this before, I look at the name boats as almost being for me like our a marine, right? Because if you are boats, you got a certain level of if you don't live up to that, they're gonna be pissed. Right, exactly. Okay, so I would imagine recovering from what happened to you at the MA school. Did you have better leadership at the Moose Burger?

Terence Harmon 36:04

Oh yeah, heck yeah, definitely.

Gary Wise 36:07

I mean, I you can't help it, right? You're gonna have some BM2s, BM1s, BMCs, LDO. Looking back on Moose Burger, who was like your top top one or two mentors or people that really got through to you on that ship? You remember?

Terence Harmon 36:22

Oh, yeah, no doubt. BM2 Robertson now retired BMC M Robertson, my my my mentor. Besides you, yeah. Oh yeah.

Gary Wise 36:30

Okay, so what was it about uh that boats and boats that really resonated for you that helped you come through it?

Terence Harmon 36:39

Uh it took that little punk out of me. Um, I'm stepping on, and I knew I knew what um so the day I checked on board, we went on a four-month deployment. We went on a Utah's around South America. So I checked on board and got underway. So yeah, I come up there, cocky. I want to be a lead seaman on the on the line, and um he's like, He belonged on he around on line one. And I'm like, What? What are you talking about? He blind heaven on line one. Hey, by the time that CNC was over, that dude took me up to the Ford Anchor Hamlet, caved my chest in, man. Ain't have nothing but the true wall-to-wall counseling, Gary. True wall to wall counseling, you know.

Gary Wise 37:16

I mean, look, you're not a little guy, right? No, you're not a little guy. He wasn't either.

Terence Harmon 37:21

So we called him D we called him D Bo on the ship, but he wasn't little either. That's the name.

Gary Wise 37:26

But I mean, that's that's that's a piece of that pie though, right? Like you you got your opportunity to go two from the chest, right? You got your chance to all right, bro. You want to do? I mean, I I had a uh second-class petty officer did the same thing for me when I was a young sailor, and and it just was what it was, it changed my life. Marlo Lindsay from South Carolina and Lowe changed my life. And a piece of that was he was he was willing to go hand on hand combat with me because that's what I needed. I respected that way more than words, right? And so, but he was a second-class petty officer. So everyone listening, it wasn't like he was a master at the time, he was a BM2, but and and and and Terrence had been in the Navy a little bit, so he he was a little in his mind, had some seniority, whatnot, and you guys had to get calibrated. How long did it take after that for you to fall into line and recognize that this guy was solid?

Terence Harmon 38:23

Oh, no time at all. Because he ran the Eastworth program. I got right on him, um, got my Eastwatch as a seaman, S N S W, you know, picked up third and followed him.

Gary Wise 38:35

He's saying, So was he the one that turned John to get in your Eastwatch pin?

Terence Harmon 38:41

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So tight he was he was he's Haley's guard guardfather. That's awesome, man. We're tight. We're tight. Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 38:50

And was it just his hit? Like, did he already know at that point of his career that he wanted to go all the way?

Terence Harmon 38:59

Oh yeah, he knew he wanted, yeah, he did. We always called him lifer, called him a lifer back then, and they always called me lifers. So, like all my partners now, they say like still T T, you still in? When you gonna retire? Make fun, you know, messing with me like that.

Gary Wise 39:15

Okay, and I I think that matters, right? Because our first ships, our first few years, if if you have the right mentor, it will really put you on the right trajectory. And you stayed connected with this person, which for me is amazing, right? Because this is back before social media and having cell phones in your pockets, it was harder to stay connected back then. No doubt. Did he leave the ship? How did he leave the ship before you?

Terence Harmon 39:45

Oh, yeah, yeah. Because he had been there like uh maybe '93. He brought the ship from Charleston. So he brought it from Charleston to me for it. And you know, you know, both of my tours was like five and three. Seashore rotations five and three. I think maybe five and two back then.

Gary Wise 40:00

You know, I think it was going right, right?

Terence Harmon 40:03

Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 40:04

See going right. So, how long was he with you on board the ship?

Terence Harmon 40:09

Um see, I was there from '96 to 2000. We decombed her up in Philly. I think he left in '99 and went to Great Lakes because they mapped him the uh BM1. And then he went to the Great Lakes and made BMC.

Gary Wise 40:22

Okay. And I say that because a lot of times in the military, we don't get the chance to be with really good leaders a long time, right? Typically, 18, 24 months is the max, and someone's leaving, right? Someone's leaving. Um, and that's why I tell people like, well, I love what I'm doing right now because I get four years with these kids in high school, right? And four years, bro, I can help you become an amazing, you know, like you can really go out the box. Um, but but we we do amazing things, we're used to doing amazing things in 24 months, right? Most of us will go to a command and turn that joker around in two years and be ready to roll because it's kind of proof our jokes. We are, we are improved, Marshall, brother. Definitely, 100%. And we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about that. Okay, so after the moose burger, you know you're staying in the navy, you just got capped in BM2, you got your warfare pin, you just finished all your sea duty and you decommissioned the moose burger. Where are you going to next?

Terence Harmon 41:26

Uh Yokushka. That's where that's where I became the Seventh Fleet Sailor, man. That's why I love Japan.

Gary Wise 41:32

Okay, so you go to Japan and you're married at the time, right?

Terence Harmon 41:36

Correct.

Gary Wise 41:38

And you have another child at this time?

Terence Harmon 41:41

Yeah.

Gary Wise 41:42

So when you go to Yokosuka, you got a wife and a baby.

Terence Harmon 41:45

Correct.

Gary Wise 41:46

Okay. And you're going to shore duty. So you go to Port Ops?

Terence Harmon 41:50

Port Ops, yep. C F A Y, Yoko.

Gary Wise 41:54

What year was that?

Terence Harmon 41:56

That was uh 2000 to 2002.

Japan Port Ops And 9/11 Shift

Gary Wise 41:59

Okay, so you how was that? Uh were you excited to go to Japan or y'all a little nervous?

Terence Harmon 42:06

Um, I had heard so much about it, like you know, how so many sailors get over there and stay. And yeah. I was I was I was excited. Uh the ex-wife, she was kind of well, I knew she was nervous, but she got homesick and went back anyway. So yeah.

Gary Wise 42:21

Oh, okay. Well, I mean, back in those days, again, there's not a lot of information readily available. There's no internet really to look at all the information. You get hopefully you'll get a sponsorship package. But I got to Japan in 1997 and it was like I got on a plane and I got off, and I was like, Where do I go now? Like, what do I do? Right? So, uh, would you remember that day walking off the plane? Was that a huge culture shock for you guys, or or not too bad?

Terence Harmon 42:50

Uh no, not too bad. We we knew how to navigate. Uh, yeah, it wasn't really bad.

Gary Wise 42:56

And then were y'all living on base Yakuska or were y'all over like in Hario?

Terence Harmon 43:02

Um no, we were in Yokuska. We were in the um, what is the other one? Nagishi, isn't it?

Gary Wise 43:07

Oh, y'all was out to Nagishi.

Terence Harmon 43:09

Yeah, yeah. Bro, that was first. So, Gary, first, we started off in town. We lived out in town first. Okay, yeah, we live out in town, and nine is a lot of.

Gary Wise 43:20

Is that by choice?

Terence Harmon 43:22

Yeah, yeah, we just wanted to live out of town out in a westernized apartment, police out on the water, and then 9-11 kicked off and we moved on base.

Gary Wise 43:31

Okay, so you you chose to go out in town because a lot of people do that because they want the experience, right? They want to be able to say they live in a show, they kind of have that. What was it about 9 11 that caused y'all to move back on base?

Terence Harmon 43:46

To get us closer, because they put all the port offs people, they made us go to um 95 45. So being that I had that MA experience partially already, that's when it's gonna come to me going back to MA. In 02.

Gary Wise 44:01

Yeah. I would tell y'all, people don't understand how much 9-11 affected the Navy when it comes to shore installation security forces. Right? Like it changed the Navy because before that, installation security was like shore duty for all kinds of sailors, right? And you had a variety of people, D seamen, a lot of DC men, well, that's a shore duty for them doing physical security, doing port operation security, or or the base security uh managing the water side, right? The port side. But after 9-11, they damn near stood up an army of they created their own army, right? They made I was a recruiter, bro. We was putting everybody in as an MA, like everybody, right? And so you you were on the inside track of that, it sounds like getting sent to that base, that security force school to get all the training. Um did you did that feel full circle for you?

Terence Harmon 45:03

Yeah, I got had my opportunity to get it back again. So this time around, um my two years was up there. So it was actually three years, but but the ex-wife went back, so it cut me to two years. So my time was up, and I got another uh shot at MA school in October, September of 02, and went to San Diego to Point Loma for MAA school, knocked that out, and went to Charleston.

Gary Wise 45:28

So when she went back, was it a result of like personal things, or was it like she just didn't like Japan? Homesick, homesick, homesick, true true Charleston. Yeah, yeah, happens a lot, man. And unfortunately, a lot of young couples they don't make it through that first overseas tour because of that, right? Because a person gets homesick. I remember when Erica and I went over there. Man, it was that was a huge fear for me, was that she was gonna want to leave. And after the earthquake happened, she did leave for a little bit, but she came back, and that was that was by the grace of God, right? Because I've watched a lot of people lose their family over that that challenge of being homesick, right? And not and of course, how much we're working all the time, right? Because even on show duty, you work it, like you're putting hours in over there, and for so for them, it can be lonely, right? And back then there wasn't no technology, you weren't just FaceTime with family every five, every five minutes or making friends or whatnot. So when she left, did you go into the barracks?

Terence Harmon 46:35

Yeah, I got yeah, you got you know how you get like the 30 30 days to evacuate your um Nagi. And yeah, I definitely went to the barracks right across from the exchange.

Gary Wise 46:44

Okay, so go into the barracks now, but then it like you said, it cuts a year off of your duty station time. Uh, where do you end up going to next?

Terence Harmon 46:54

Uh, went to the MAA school in Point Loma and then went because been there in Charleston. Um, the actual CMC who used to be on um on uh Moose Burger, he took over the base hospital in Charleston. So I made that call to him and had him call a detailer for me, and that got me to Charleston back to my you know wife and kids. So it worked.

Gary Wise 47:17

People don't understand networking. Like I've reverse engineered so many people's orders by doing that, bro. Like calling the guy at the end, having them call the guy in the middle, having the guy in the middle press the button, and away you go, right? I I've done that for so many sailors, and and it's just that's just networking, right? It's just networking. You're still feeling the billet, right? You just playing chestnut checkers, right? So you so when you were coming out of that job, you knew you wanted to convert to MA. Like you were like, I don't want to stay a Bosa May. I'm I'm changing. Why did you want to change rates?

Terence Harmon 47:56

Well, as you know, back then, you could have cut an 80 and had four O's back then on Bolsa Mate, and it was locked. Yeah, it was still open. MA was open, wide open. Once 9-11 hit, and then all the all the Boston Mates went MA. And pretty much now all the MAs are, you know, they're trying to go Boston mate now because it's so slow over there. So the rate was locked up.

Gary Wise 48:18

It was locked. And and that, you know, I remember when I first joined the Navy, a lot of engineers were converting over to D seamen because it was just a hot moving rate, right? And and they were again, they were trying to play strategic and make some rank because ultimately the retirement check is based off your pay grade, right? Like, let's let's keep it a buck, right? Let's keep it a buck. And so that's strategic, and I get that. And you you got the experience, you got the training, you've been to all the schools, uh, and you're going to the naval hospital back in South Carolina, which is like going.

Installation Security After 9/11

Terence Harmon 48:55

No, I wasn't again. Well, he was he was at the hospital, but they put me at the actual weapon station. Naval weapon station.

Gary Wise 49:03

So the same base you had been at before as an undesignated seaman, now you're coming back as security forces.

Terence Harmon 49:10

No, no, no. The first one I was at was Naval Station, Naval Base Charleston. But then there's a weapon station there too, because you got naval nuclear power, you got the nukes there as well. So it's a weapon station there. So it's like four bases there in Charleston.

Gary Wise 49:23

Okay, and when you're going there, are you going there to be installation security?

Terence Harmon 49:27

Correct.

Gary Wise 49:28

And are you land? Is it only do they only have like a land sign?

Terence Harmon 49:32

They have a harbor patrol as well, but the harbor is with the um Navy Nuke Power Training Command, the nukes, the nuke school. Yeah.

Gary Wise 49:41

Um, when you get there as MA2, uh, who's doing the gate guard at that time? Is that are you staying in gate guard? Okay. Was there a lot? Well, did you have civilians as well doing gate guard or was it 100% military?

Terence Harmon 49:56

Yeah, usually, usually one civilian and one military.

Gary Wise 49:59

Okay. Um, because I would tell you, man, being a base CMC, one of my biggest challenges was helping my security forces manage that problem, right? Because it's they love the three, two, two, three rotation, but that can be a monster, man. It can, it can. If you don't have the bodies, it can, yeah. Yeah, or like on Guam, I had a bunch of gates, bro. I had so many gates. It wasn't like three, four gates, there was just so many gates, and it was just not enough people because the math don't math, right? The Navy will say, Well, you're supposed to have 300 billets, but we'll give you 150 funded and 150 unfunded. And I'm just like, How does that make sense, bro? Like, you telling me to tell my sailors that you know we don't have enough people, but make it work, and then tell me them on the other hand, and they're supposed to have a work-life balance, and those DOD, those DOD cops, they're gonna take that overtime if you give it to them, and you gotta have the money to provide them the overtime. Well, and that's the thing, right? Because their overtime is the only way the sailors and security forces can get some release, time off, exactly. And what I found out when I again as an installation CMC was we were making it work on the backs of the sailors because we didn't have the money for the overtime, because it's federal government dollars, right? And that's it, and so the sailors were getting essentially taken advantage of, and we weren't closing gates because I was like, close gates, and then if we close gates, traffic gets backed up, and then the admiral will be like, Why is the gate? Why traffic so far? Open the gates, which is crazy, bro. Like I what that's one of the things that I think the Navy still needs to take a look at, and I think they should return surface sailors, shore duty to work with the security forces, supplementing the MAs to have enough people because it'll make them better sailors when they go back to the ship, right? Because on the ship, here's the other thing where I think 9-11 really affected the Navy. All the security force watch rotations or watch positions we had to stand up that we're not built for, right? Remember on the ship when you was like, you gotta have an Atwo, topside rover, top security, yeah, yeah. Horrible, bro. Like, we barely got enough watch standards to match what's in our real Swarm. Now you gotta add all these other watches and assignments, even at home port. And it's like we in home port with base security, what are we doing? You know, exactly. Then but the United States Navy hide to the right, unfortunately, and they just don't think when they take it out of hide, right? Because you didn't you should have added MA's to the ship to help man that, right? But you don't do that anyway, anyway. I digress, right? It's a it's a frustration. It's a frustration, but we made it work, you know. Oh, yeah. Okay, so you're you're at the weapon station, you're doing installation security. Uh, was that an enjoyable time?

Terence Harmon 53:09

No, standing that gate sucks because you get those severe thunderstorms in Charleston, man. Standing that gate can't, yeah, it's bad out there, but hey, um, you get to rotate around in the vehicles sometimes, and hey, 15 days out of the month. That's the good thing about that 3223.

Gary Wise 53:24

That's it. That's what they really love about it. And it's the same thing for civilian law enforcement, too, right? They do the exact same rotation, but they also get to do the overtime, but but they like that part of it. Okay, um, is that a three-year tour or is that a two-year tour?

Terence Harmon 53:40

It was a three-year tour. I was there from 02 to 05 of September, and that's when I started doing those. I hit that one-year tour. That's when they first brought the detainees to Cuba. 05, I went to Guantanamo Bay.

Gary Wise 53:52

You went to Get Mo at the end of that tour, you say?

Terence Harmon 53:56

Yeah, once I finished up my three years in Chuck Town in Charleston, I think I went down to uh Guantanamo Bay. And that was a high school. They snatched me from that, actually. They snatched me from Charleston, and we were the first ones to go down there.

Gary Wise 54:10

Did you are did you ever meet a DC one down there named Burns?

Terence Harmon 54:16

First name? Danny. Danny Burns? No, it was a Burns on my first ship though, but no, no.

Guantanamo Bay Year And Advancement

Gary Wise 54:23

Okay. I just say that because he was on my ship with me. He had come from brig duty as a D seaman. And the day I got frocked, the first class petty officer, I'm walking off the flight deck from just getting frocked, and he's holding a mess. He's the LPO at the time, and he's holding a message in his hand that says he just got orders to go IA to Gitmo to open up Guantanamo Bay for a 12-month IA. And I'm the new LPO for the division, right? And that IA changed his life because he had to go 12 months to Guantanamo Bay in support of the war on terror, whatever you want to call it. And I got the opportunity to be the LPO of the division as a I mean, literally just walked off the frocking ceremony, you know, and I never forget. I mean, he came back a year later. And where you think I was at a year later? Like, yeah, I was Sailor of the Year, I was whatever. Yeah, right. And he was coming back, and the CO had changed command. So the old CO had promised him he didn't have to go on deployment. Well, the new CO was like, I didn't make that promise. So they made him go on deployment on the backside of a 12-month IA to Guantanamo Bay, bro. And I we made chief petty officer together that year, actually. Him and I put it on anchors. He got he made chief, I made chief. We went through initiation, but I I would have never let that happen to my sailor if I was the CMC, bro. Like I would have stashed him somewhere so quick, so fast. Like he's not going on that deployment, dog. Not after a no-notice, 12-month IA. He is not going on that deployment. We all know we can work, we can work this out. Oh, yeah, right. 100%. But they made him go on the deployment, man. And so I remember that uh that that time period. And you know, I mean, back then the Navy, the war, the armed forces was busy, right? We had we had people over in Afghanistan, we had people gearing up to go into Iraq. Uh did you go to brig duty before you went to Guantanamo, or had you already gone to brig duty?

Terence Harmon 56:32

No, I done brick brick training, I done that in 2011. Okay. Well, yeah, so so before going to Guantanamo, they send you to uh Washington State, you know, just to learn about what you're gonna go through. Everybody has to go through Washington State before they go down to Cuba.

Gary Wise 56:50

All right, man. How was that living in Cuba doing brig duty? Because I heard stories, bro. I heard I heard they was they was it was something else. How was that experience for you?

Terence Harmon 57:02

It was Warriors, man. They hey I was yeah, I'm sure I can say it. It's it's status of agreement. Yeah, I can talk about it now. I was there when the guy swallowed his beard. I was there when uh when they riot it. So uh yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it down there. It was, yeah, they would they would make make um they called it the cocktail where they'd miss up the mix up the feces and the urine, yeah, and they knew how to throw it through that, you know how they have the chicken wire, they knew exactly how to throw it on you, so yeah.

Gary Wise 57:31

Yeah, and you know, it's like uh anything, right? You got prisoners that are looking to rebel, looking to and they're pissed off, and we're not down there built for that mission set, right? That's a brand new mission. We're standing up, figuring out what to do with these guys. Well, how long were you there for? Is that only one year?

Terence Harmon 57:50

It's a year total, yeah.

Gary Wise 57:52

One year, and you go down there as an MA1? MA2, MA2. So had you been up in first class yet?

Terence Harmon 58:00

Yeah, actually, I made first down there, but didn't look back at my record and missed it like about missing by points twice and then look back at it, Gary, and should have been an MA1.

Gary Wise 58:09

Yeah, okay, so you're missing, you're you're taking the test, you're missing it by points, but no one's really helping you anyway. Because you know, on the shit, that's what we would do, right? We would look at anyone who didn't make it, and we would look to see how close they were and try just to make sure we're not missing something, right?

Terence Harmon 58:26

No one's back there now to you. Let's back there now, back data now. No, nobody done that for me.

Gary Wise 58:31

No, okay. Um, were you were you frustrated at that point about not making rank, or were you just like it's in God's hands and I'll just keep working?

Terence Harmon 58:43

Uh a little frustrated, but I knew eventually I was gonna make it because those, you know, those PA points, you know. Yeah, okay. I was frustrated once I looked back like two or three years later and was like, Oh my god, I should have been a first class already.

Gary Wise 58:56

Because I made it yeah, that's just money in your pocket, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, ultimately that's it, right? Money in your pocket, stress off your head, cloak one step closer to the next pay grade, right? All the above, right? I mean, because you know, I look at it like when I made chief, if I had never taken the test for LDO purposes, I would have not made chief that year because no one no one put no time or rate waiver in for me, right? The same the CMC didn't do that after I made more for LDO, right? And so I'm looking at it like you I so I was always looking out for those those hard chargers to make sure they got that opportunity that no one gave to me, right? But but but in life, you got to take care of your business, right? You got to be on top of your uh stuff, okay? So you're near leaving that IA. What are you looking to do next? You've already done a base security force job, you're a first-class petty officer now, you're leaving this high visibility, stressful 12-month job. Are they trying to drag you to go over to like Iraq or Afghanistan because you're an MA? Or are they trying to put you on a ship? What's that look like?

Terence Harmon 1:00:12

No, so they I I think they already knew my I had already completed my C time. You know, as the MA, you're our overseas council is our C time, right? So I had plenty of overseas time, but actually I was an MA too still. I made it, you know, while I mean here, here is the hub. All MAs have to come here to make rank, right? You have to do it, and you have to do a um hardship toward coming here, you know, without your spouse or whatever. So I chose to come here under the threat mitigation unit, TMU, MCIS. So I came here as NCIS. And when I came here first here, checking on one.

Gary Wise 1:00:45

So you're still married at this time, but you're you're going to a geobatch tour.

Terence Harmon 1:00:50

Correct.

Gary Wise 1:00:50

So you were geobatch in in Iraq too, right? Cuba, you're you're GB in Cuba, and now you're going to GB. So how is how is communication between you and her at that time? Is it tough? That's a lot of GB time.

Terence Harmon 1:01:06

Yeah, we're we're going through the breakups. We're going through the breakups. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:01:11

Is that affecting you at work at that time, or are you holding it down and it's okay?

Terence Harmon 1:01:17

Uh no, I wouldn't it wouldn't affect me at work, but internally, yeah, yeah. It never got to be at work, but yeah.

Gary Wise 1:01:25

Okay, because I mean that's a lot, right? You got you got children, you got family, you're going through losing a significant relationship. But then a lot of times people will really they really appreciate the structure of the Navy because you just do the do the thing, right? Do what you got to do every day, and everything else kind of works itself out in the long run. And so when you're over there with NCIS, are you doing like investigations with them, like CID?

Terence Harmon 1:01:52

No, we're actually doing the type of work in just like you're an agent. You know, you're going out checking on you know any kind of criminal cases going on, any kind of sexual assault. You actually carry credentials around just like you're an agent. Give you civilian clothes, civilian clothes for the whole year. You get an extra $850 every month. Um like protests out out actually in out in Bahrain, you go out for those.

Gary Wise 1:02:18

Yeah, so yeah, okay, so you're there, it's a it's a very unique opportunity. You're getting your overseas tour done, you're getting your uh what do they call it? They call it a restricted dependent tour or something like that, right? Again, I got I got a lot of information on the MAs again when I was a base CMC and I had a bunch of MAs, right? And they're telling me about this stuff. Um, did you enjoy being a Bahrain that time?

Terence Harmon 1:02:44

Oh, yeah, yeah, I did. I did.

Gary Wise 1:02:46

Did did you get the chance to make a lot of connections with people, or were you kind of not really connected because of the line of work you were doing?

Terence Harmon 1:02:54

No, you know me. I've always been a network king, man. I'm always networking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Gary Wise 1:03:00

Okay. So you didn't find yourself getting isolated because of what you were doing. You were still able to make friends and have a life and do all these other things.

Terence Harmon 1:03:08

Yeah, no doubt.

Gary Wise 1:03:09

Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, I just don't know because you know, as a law enforcement guy, especially as a younger man, I mean, I remember when I was a young setting, we used to throw the MA's bottle in the ocean and tell them, get on, bro, but we don't want you here, right? So I didn't know like if people were comfortable having you like being connected with you, or if they was like, yo, this guy right here is or you were you hanging out with the MAs, or were you hanging out with just anybody?

Terence Harmon 1:03:33

Well, it's it's only a few with threat mitigation unit. You're not you're not with the actual 46199 Hewitt, the actual 800 MAs, it's only like seven of you guys, right? You're with the actual, yeah. No, I didn't have to.

Gary Wise 1:03:46

That's what I'm saying, right? Like, yeah, so are you because are you are you networking just with all over the people from the base? Are you really connected just to your community of MAs? Everybody on the base. Okay, everybody, yeah, all rates.

Terence Harmon 1:04:01

You know, back then they had the they had they still had sweepers out here, they just decombed all the sweepers out here, but they had PCs out here as well.

Gary Wise 1:04:09

Yeah, okay, and you know, I and I had somebody else on here from Bahrain, and he was talking about how it is a very tight-knit community over there, and people uh stay locked in with each other, so I could see that. And I I'm an overseas guy, but I never did Bahrain. But because in my mind, Bahrain's even more over. I mean, they're they're really remote, but of course, technology, of course, has changed the game over there where it's a lot more uh westernized, right?

Terence Harmon 1:04:37

Very, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:04:39

Okay, um is and that's only a one-year billet for that, uh working with the NCIS Bubbles? Okay, and so what do you decide to do? You're only there for three, four months and you're negotiating orders, right?

Terence Harmon 1:04:51

Calling for orders right at you there. Yeah, I was going back overseas again, right? Stayed in Okinawa, went to Oki from seven.

Gary Wise 1:04:57

Okay, so now you're going to Oak going to Okinawa as an MA1. Is that gonna be installation security forces?

Terence Harmon 1:05:04

Yep. Commander fleet activities, Okinawa, yep, up at White Beach.

Gary Wise 1:05:08

Hey, when you look at that time, whether it was the weapon station, I uh I keep wanting to say Iraq, but Antonomo Bay, Cuba, or that that year you're with NCIS, any significant leaders during that period of time that really uh resonated with you and made an impact?

Terence Harmon 1:05:29

Uh a couple MACMs. Oh, yeah, yeah. Tommy Perkins, um, Pat Killinger, um Ed Hendrickson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those guys those guys that held me down in Okinawa, all those guys under that leadership, all of my partners now, like Lighty. Have you had James Lighty on here now before on your show?

Gary Wise 1:05:52

Not yet. No, no, no, no, not yet.

Terence Harmon 1:05:54

All of us were together, all of us were together in Oki as young MA2s, MA1s.

Gary Wise 1:06:00

You know, I first met Lighty when he was MA senior chief up like up that northern Japan base. And he was like, Yeah. And he was like running the senior enlisted leader spot about to go to the command senior chief program. That's when him and I first connected. And I was up at the Seventh Fleet thing. Um, so Okinawa sounds like you got turned on to some really good leadership.

Terence Harmon 1:06:21

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:06:23

Okay, so you get to Okinawa, much different than Yokoska, right? Oh yeah. And are you doing base security there?

Terence Harmon 1:06:32

Uh I actually took over training LPO. They send me a second.

Gary Wise 1:06:36

But are you doing an IOT? Is it for White Beach?

Terence Harmon 1:06:39

Well, white yeah, White Beach encompasses. That's where all the security guys are at. They don't go down to Kadena base. We'll send somebody down to the Kadena Air Base if they want to, if they're gonna do the um like the what we call it inside NCIS. I think theirs is OIS, Air Force OIS. So we'll send somebody TED down there and send some people to the flight line, right? But I had I had a um training LCPO LPO rather.

Gary Wise 1:07:03

Yeah, because the only real Navy base in Okinawa is White Beach, right?

Terence Harmon 1:07:07

Correct.

Gary Wise 1:07:08

That's a pretty good base to have right there. It's not a lot of gates, it's not a lot of people out there, it's quiet. That's good duty. Okay, so what did you your ma one now? Are you trying to make chief? Are you is that is that a priority for you at that point?

Terence Harmon 1:07:23

Yeah, but it was just stuck in traffic because there were so many MA1s there. I mean, hella MA1s there.

Okinawa Leadership And Traffic Jam

Gary Wise 1:07:30

So so when you say to stuff, when he says stuck in traffic for everyone listening, it is there's almost this thing in the Navy where if you you got seniority over people, they don't want to drop you because it can hurt your career. But then you got hot runners that are kind of they're blocked because you got people that have been there longer than them. And and I'm telling you what, managing talent is one of the most important things that the Navy either gets it right or gets it wrong, right? And you gotta have leaders that really manage that. So when you look back at that time you were there, were you there for two years or three years?

Terence Harmon 1:08:03

Three. I done a full three there.

Gary Wise 1:08:05

Did a full, I mean, why not? Right? It's a good duty station. You got the base, you're the training petty officer, it sounds like you're doing everything in your rate, but it's also not overwhelming, right? Because you don't got as much to do. Did the MACMs do it? Well, did you guys run everything yourself, or were you a part of the of the base? I think there was a time where the security forces was like their own command, right? And not raw base.

Terence Harmon 1:08:32

Yeah, we fell uh you know Terry Woodcock, right? We fell under Terry Woodcock, he was the base CMC. So yeah.

Gary Wise 1:08:39

Um yeah, we're pretty much done our own thing down there. Okay, and the MACMs did a good job of of training up all the MA1s, right?

Terence Harmon 1:08:49

Correct, correct.

Gary Wise 1:08:52

Even though you knew you were there was a lot of blocking and traffic, how did you guys work your way through that? Do you remember?

Terence Harmon 1:08:59

Uh I didn't leave, I didn't pull an EP there. I came there with a P. I didn't even there with a transfer, you know, and that's kind of bad in the game, knowing what I know, you know. Yeah, that's what it's transferred MP. It was just that many people there, man.

Gary Wise 1:09:12

But was it a rank? Well, it was it a hard rank MP? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Terence Harmon 1:09:16

Uh hard breakout MP. It was hard break.

Gary Wise 1:09:18

Yeah, okay.

Terence Harmon 1:09:19

Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:09:20

Um where did you go to after Okinawa?

Terence Harmon 1:09:24

That's when I went to the brig in Charleston. So I went to Lackland to go to brig school, and then I went to Charleston, South Carolina from 11 to 14.

Gary Wise 1:09:32

So you managed to hit Charleston multiple times throughout your career.

Terence Harmon 1:09:36

Because that's where the ex-wife was in, and I always tried to get back to the kids, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Charleston's pretty much been my only that's only been my only shore duty back back stateside. I'm a you know, I'm a seventh fleet guy. Out of my 30, I think I've been in Japan, what, 14? Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:09:51

Okay.

Terence Harmon 1:09:52

Bahrain twice and Cuba once, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:09:55

Right. So you get back to Charleston, you're at the brig. What are you doing personally in your career to help make sure you can find success now? Because you just was at that Okinawa job for three years and you were blocked. Felt like you you had good mentors, you said, people you remember fondly, probably leaders that gave you good advice. Were you able to take that advice and put it to action at the break?

Terence Harmon 1:10:21

Oh, yeah, I came to the brink. First uh, first eight months, hitting the ground running. Um, say a lot of year, first time there, 2011. Um messed around and didn't make bored. Uh, you know, I was trying to trying to work things out with the ex, you know. But I was I no, I wasn't yeah. I was just trying to, you know, just get the time in with the kids. I went studying, I'm not gonna lie to you. I didn't study.

Gary Wise 1:10:42

Okay, okay.

Terence Harmon 1:10:43

No, I didn't make bored, Gary. I made bored. I made bored. Okay. Yeah. Um second time around. No, I was I was putting it in, yeah. Because I think I had people stuck in traffic because I got there, I was number two EP, and I stayed number one EP the whole time there, and that's where I made peace there.

Gary Wise 1:11:02

So looking back at that period, can you give me two or three things that you did consistently that helped you not only rise to the top of the pack, but maintain that place? That you do you remember? Like, was there two or three things that you specifically did to make you be that guy?

Terence Harmon 1:11:20

Oh, yeah. So once you know, once um, once I made that sale of the year, he made me sponsorship coordinator and he made me the um, it's called prisoner management. Those are the guys who run the run the prisoners back there in the back, and that's the main job there. So I took that prisoner management LPO, and usually anybody who sits that spot back there, I know for a fact I've been keeping up with it. It's like eight and no, everybody back there, they make chief after that spot back there. So once you get that, and I was first class FCPO uh president, so yeah, I had all I had all I had it all.

Gary Wise 1:11:53

So leadership of your peers, right? Uh FCP first class petty officer mess. So they selected you to be their guy, right? Which is people understand how huge that is. That's a huge one because that shows your own peers recommend you to be the leader, right? Uh, the sponsorship piece is a huge human resource program that if you can make that work, it's gonna be great. And then you were doing one of the prime missions, which is managing the actual brig person, like the people that were being housed there, right? Right, okay, which is I got a lot of respect in your community from for that job, right? Which I think matters. Okay, and so you pick up Chief while you're there, 19 years, eight months on terminal. No kidding, you were that far in the Navy at that point, and you were on terminal leave?

Terence Harmon 1:12:43

I was on terminal, bro. Yeah, that was it. Remember, I come in in '94, it was 2014.

Gary Wise 1:12:49

So when you met me on the Abston, that was the first year, man. Okay, I remember that. I think I remember that part, but I don't think I recognized you was on terminal leave when you made cheese. If I did, I don't remember that. Okay, so again, looking back at your career, do you think it was? It sounds like White Beach is what really held you up, man, because you was putting your work, but not getting the opportunities, or not getting someone that was gonna give you the opportunity, right? Even though you was probably doing the work, they let you be stuck in traffic as a senior MA1 or as a senior sailor in general, and then you got to the the brig and then then the not making board a few times hurt you, right? Okay, got it. And so what was that thinking like when you made cheap on terminal leave? Were you just like, did you not think about it like I'm not doing that, but I'm getting out, I'm rolling.

Brig Tour, Sailor Of The Year, Making Chief

Terence Harmon 1:13:48

Well, I had a job, I had a uh uh good paying job and everything. Um, already lined up again, right and the networking guy. So um me and Marshmill just had got married in what 2012? And I asked her, I was like, um, and I knew I hadn't been in the sea, but I I knew what I needed to do, so I was like, okay, let me go ahead and say I knew the detail, I knew the MA detail told him I don't care where you sent me in Japan, make it FDN now and put me on the ship. That's when I came to the ash.

Gary Wise 1:14:18

Okay, so you met Marshillian during that break tour.

Terence Harmon 1:14:21

I knew Marshilla in '99 in UTO. Okay, we just went our different ways. Yeah, she was she was married, I was married. We both got divorced, and then Facebook brought us back together in 2010, and we started started dating, and then we married in 2012.

Gary Wise 1:14:37

And she did 20 years in the Navy as well. She was like a dental tech, right?

Terence Harmon 1:14:41

Original dental tech, original dental tech.

Gary Wise 1:14:44

Yeah, and so when you guys ended up reconnecting, was she still Navy or was she just recently retired?

Terence Harmon 1:14:51

She was she retired in 2014, so she finished her last two years at the NOSC in Charleston.

Gary Wise 1:14:56

Okay, and that's where y'all re that's where y'all really got the chance to get back together again, was she at the NOS and you at and you there on at the brig duty? Correct. But that helps, right? That helps having a spouse that speaks navy and understands what's going on. Because here you are, terminal leave, about to make all these other plans, pick up chief. How was initiation for you through that process? Did they did they really ride you hard going through initiation?

Terence Harmon 1:15:25

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, because I hadn't been to a ship since what 2000, right? So you know what they gave me the business, you know. But I I I you know it's mind games, but I was like, okay, you guys didn't think it. I'm a MA, I don't have to go to a ship, you know. I don't have to go to a ship.

Gary Wise 1:15:39

But once I make it, you went through an but you went through initiation in Charleston in Charleston in Charleston with the base or like with the weapon station?

Terence Harmon 1:15:49

With the base. Oh, it's back then encompassed it all. Okay, yeah, people people come up from uh Columbus, Kings Bay or Columbus, Georgia. I know it's people come up though. A lot of Nas come up because the Noska is there, all the Noska in the Southeast region, they come up and get so it's a lot of us.

Gary Wise 1:16:05

But I mean, here you are coming off terminal leave, you are making chief petty officer, had all these other plans, have these all these life changes. Uh, what was that like for you going through that initiation process? And did you did you get any did you get from it what you did you hope did you have any hope of what you wanted from it? Because you probably wanted to make chief for a few years and wanted to go through initiation, right? Did it did it meet your expectations?

Terence Harmon 1:16:34

Oh yeah, yeah. It did. Okay, it did. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:16:39

Okay. Yeah um did it prepare you to go to sea as a chief petty officer and find success?

Terence Harmon 1:16:46

Believe it or not, I I think I just navigated my way on the aslee and just being a you know what? Being a being a boatswain mate, I think it just prepares you. You just know how to navigate once you get on the ship, man. If you've been a boat and you, you know, you done all the deck it, you've done all the eck it, all that stuff, you just know how to navigate once you get on the ship. Okay. Um once I stepped on board and said, 'May, I knew what to do.' So it wasn't hard for me.

Gary Wise 1:17:11

Yeah, and we're going to talk about that now because I want to get to Ashland. And uh, ladies and gentlemen, I had the opportunity to surf with this man on Ashland. And if you just heard uh his story, is you're paying attention. He was retiring from the Navy night at terminal on terminal leave, mate chief petty officer, and he is now a master chief petty officer, command master chief petty officer at 30 years. So this next period of time we're gonna talk about, I think is is probably very, very, very special because very few people manage to do what you have done, right? And I give that to you because I got to be there to see at least two years of it. And it was it's not just God, it was your I think it was your ability to be calm, be consistent, sustain spear performance, and to let people give you opportunities to capitalize on things, right? They would just they would get they would they would they would give you the opportunity you to say thank you, and you would just capitalize the place, didn't it, bro? Yeah, right into place for me. They sure did, man. And then you did it so smooth, man. You did it so smooth, and you did it with such grace. And okay, so we're gonna get into it. So when you get to Sasebo, right, and you get to because you've never been to Sasebo yet. It's your first time going to Sasebo, right?

Terence Harmon 1:18:37

Right, right.

Gary Wise 1:18:38

And you're going to an LSD. You've never been on a gator before, never been on a gator, right? And again, for those of you that don't know the Navy, gators are a little bit different than the other ships, right? It's just a little different Navy, little different type of people thing mission, right? The mission set's different, and then Sassamo, it's a small base, right? It doesn't got a lot going for itself, even though it's gotten better. Uh, what did you think, as a Ma who'd been off the ships for a while, first year chief, when you got to Ashland, how was that for you?

Terence Harmon 1:19:16

Um, believe it or not, man, I come there to make senior chief. I knew I came there to grind, and I had already read the letter and I knew what I had to do, and I knew a lot of MAs hated going to sea. And like you said, having a wife who spoke the language, she knew we had to go. I mean, um before you got there, um, Gita, out of 356 days out of the year, we were going 300 out of 2015. We're we're gone. So I knew I had to get the grind in, and like you said, I'm not gonna speak on my man's position the way I fell into that position I fell in. Um, it worked out perfectly for me, man. It worked out.

Gary Wise 1:19:53

Are you talking about the guy that was there before you?

Terence Harmon 1:19:57

No, no, no, no, no, no. The guy for me to fall into that top MP position, okay. Checking on board, nine months on board, calling a high MP, that position, you know.

Gary Wise 1:20:09

So let's talk about that though. We don't gotta talk about anybody in particular, but when you got there again, that's a tough year, right? And that's because you guys got pulled to do that sipan stuff, right? Right. But what was because just because I'm curious, right? What was what was the culture? What was the feel of the Chiefs mess or the crew during that from that first year on board? Was it just overworked and ragged? Was it just just everybody just going through the motions and nobody really caring? What was that like?

Terence Harmon 1:20:45

I think a lot of them just going through the motions and didn't care, didn't see the eye to eye with the CMC on there. I think that's where it was. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:20:53

Was he there the whole time with you for that year?

Terence Harmon 1:20:55

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Steve was, yeah, yeah, he was.

Ashland Deployment Grind And Culture Reset

Gary Wise 1:20:58

Okay. Uh you know what's funny about that is him and I walked off the George Washington together, yeah, right? Together, right? He walked off, and and I we're friends. I would love to have him on the show someday. Uh, but we walked, we did we did the GW together, both made Master Chief on board the George Washington, and he was going to be CMC for Ashland, and I was going to Swast Norfolk to be an instructor at the DC Senior Listen School. So when I got orders to go to Ashland, he when I looked it up to see who the CMC was, I was like, oh snap! Like, I know that, like, bro, that's crazy. And then, of course, I knew the CO at the time too from a past life as well. Um, when you look at your first year on board Ashland, again, you made a lot of progress, right? You got to be a ranked MP, your first eval, correct, right? What was it that caused you to find success there? Was it because as an MA, you're at a disadvantage on the ship, right? Because you are you got a very small group, you had a strong PSCS or PSC at the time, right? Yeah, and Ray Giron, right? Who's another legend? I gotta get Ray on here, right? You got Ray about retirement, man.

Terence Harmon 1:22:18

He's right here with me, he's right next door to me.

Gary Wise 1:22:21

Yeah, I'll get at him. I got plenty of time. I'm playing long game, you know. We got plenty of time, but uh so you have him, and so and he's he's a he's uh he's a shaker and a mover, I'm sure he's a player, but what I always heard about that Chiefs mess before I got there, you had very strong engineering people as well, right? That were kind of running the mess.

Terence Harmon 1:22:45

How beats down there, you had two beats down there. I think it worked out for me because they liked me.

Gary Wise 1:22:51

Okay.

Terence Harmon 1:22:52

Uh Don Hewan, is that how you pronounce it? Hewing, hewing, is that how you pronounce it?

Gary Wise 1:22:56

I never met him.

Terence Harmon 1:22:57

Yeah, he's I think he's like one of the top HCCMs in the game, was one of the top HCCMs in the game, yeah. Uh and um I think well, Ty came with you, and you know Ty, but yeah, those guys ran it.

Gary Wise 1:23:11

Yeah, Ty came after me. Yeah, yeah, Ty came after me.

Terence Harmon 1:23:14

Um, okay, so first year on the ship though, mc Ewan, Macwinn McEwen, McEwen, MCC UEN.

Gary Wise 1:23:23

Yeah, he left before I got there. When I and then you had Carlos there. Well, how long was Carlos there with you?

Terence Harmon 1:23:29

Carlos was there the whole time with me until he put on command scene chief and went to what Patriot or which one? He went to one of those sweeps.

Gary Wise 1:23:36

One of the sweeps, yeah. One I think I think it was Patriot. Um, how how important was that relationship for you? Because when I got there, he was your he was like your mentor, right? On the ship? Yep, yeah, yeah.

Terence Harmon 1:23:48

It worked well for me because he taught me, you know, started me off as a stretcher bear, then he raised me up to investigator, and then he put me on decade and just let me run the show. And I was the uh decade investigator, and brought us through that decade, you know, brought us through that exercise. Once Pat got on board, we ran that and everything wrestled history.

Gary Wise 1:24:07

Okay, so you get done with your first year. Uh, I come on board after the first year. Uh what do you remember for that next couple of years when you look back on your career for Ashland? Any in particular high points or anything you want to cover for that period of time?

Terence Harmon 1:24:26

Oh, yeah, man. Um, I give you a lot of kudos. I don't know if you remember this, but I have a very good memory. Um, you would always see me sit up on that uh that that deck up there. You and Patrick would always walk around, man. And you was like, you told me, like, T, what are you gonna do, man? You coming up on retirement? I hadn't made eight yet, but I knew I was in the game. Um, but that email you wrote me, I was like, okay, coming in with an MP, and this dude just hit me with a with a uh I never forget what it says, uh, meteoric rise to E P. Timmy or something like something on board. And I was like, Yeah, I sent this to Marshall. She was like, Yeah, yeah, you in the game. And I remember telling Pat, I was like, Hey, I know you guys gonna see the results first. So if I make it, I want you to play atomic dog. We'd always get up early and we'd go down, go down to the mess next. That atomic dog came on, like 20 minutes later, you came down, you just stood in front of me and Jeff Carroll. He was like, and doubt us up. But you always asked me what I wanted to do because I was at like 22, 20, yeah, I was at 20, yeah, I was at 22 years there. I was like, man, I'm going for the ghost still. I I want to be I want to be a CMC. You laid the plan out for me, man. You laid it out for me, and I took the helm. And it's it's not normal. I I I you know now uh about you know about me, but you're you're asking me what I've done, and that's exactly what I done, brother. You stuck with me, and I took it, man.

Gary Wise 1:25:51

It was time plus preparation, bro. And and I would tell you, I remember uh for me having those conversations with you because it's like I'm managing talent, right? I got all these goats, I got all these chiefs, and I'm throwing red meat to the lions, and you were one of my solid, solid people. You never ever did me dirty, you never threw my name under the bus. Matter of fact, you kept me, you held me down. And you know now as a CMC, it could be a lovely job. Okay, very people don't know it could be especially on the ship, especially uh, because there's so much involved, especially when our mess really ran the ship. Like, we really ran that ship. Yeah, we the captain, all he cared about was what the chief's mess wanted to do, right? Right at the end of the day, what'd the chiefs say? Because then the exone was gonna make sure the department heads was aligned and we was on the same page. Uh, but I remember I was always looking at all right, is T gonna if I keep spending this money, is he gonna is he gonna is he gonna make it keep on working? Or because you were yeah, that was huge because you had other chiefs that was trying to work their way up too, but they couldn't match what he was doing. And and it was almost you went against the grain, in my opinion, because of your seniority. Most people, some people wouldn't have bet on that, right? They wouldn't they wouldn't let you get passed by a younger person and you just kept outbeating them when it came to the work, right? And that was and to the loyalty, and that was what really for me, but that was all I would ask you. I would ask you because I'm like, all right, bro, how how can I how can I defend this conversation when someone else come ask me, hey Gary, how come someone's how come I got number two or number three and I didn't get X, Y, or Z? Right? And I would always tell you, like, you had to do more because of your position. And you always said, okay. And then my one of my other things is I remember there was one time you kind of got pulled into some stuff with a program, and I love your channel. Trust because when people get into a situation that they've got to come have a hard conversation, they usually don't trust, they usually don't trust, right? They usually lose their mind, they usually start lawyering up, start saying, Oh, well, I'm gonna fight this, blah blah blah. Most times, if you just trust the process, it really will work.

Terence Harmon 1:28:22

But that only works you fixed situation, yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:28:26

But and I'm not gonna put all that out there because it was it was a little bit of this, a little bit of that, right? But for me, it was how you handled it, right? Right, and now you look at it as a CMC when you gotta hold the line on things or you gotta deal with certain stuff. Um if the people will trust you, they'll get a fair result because you're uh you are an authentic CMC that's been through stuff, right? The challenge is not everybody gets to deal with that, right? And I think the other thing is how you got done dirty as a young seaman, that probably affected you your whole career, right? Right, and your ability. I remember we'd be a DRB or we'd be any part in the process, you would always have that good sense of uh perspective on giving somebody a chance to come through it. And I I love a good comeback story, right? I love to see somebody take a punishment, like you know, and bounce back, you know, take it on the channel and bounce back. Um let's talk about our mess dynamic real quick on board that ship because it was an interesting mess, right? Right, right. We had uh when I when I think back to the the power players, uh and my in my opinion, there's also the time with Kevin Miller and the time without Kevin Miller, bro, because he was such a major impact in that mess, bro. Like if he left a huge gap when he transferred off the ship, right? Because when he was good, he was amazing, but when he was bad, bro, I wanted to sit on bad. He was just he was dirty, not like dirty in a bad way, but he's from Atlanta, he's dirty south, bro. Like he couldn't help himself, yeah. Right, he couldn't help himself, it was just he was that dude always and but and I I remember I could see where other people just didn't like his get down, right? And they would have it would be polarizing. Whereas for me, I you know what's funny about him is he was down in Texas after he left Ashland, and I was down in Guam, and I needed something, right? And I might have gone through you or somebody else to get a hold of him to get some help, and I'll be riding back. What's up, boss? What you need? And he just he gave me he gave me everything, he was a senior chief at the time.

Terence Harmon 1:31:02

Yep, yep, he made eight. You're right. Sure did, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:31:06

So did Abby, right? So did Abby. Yeah, Abby's over here with me too.

Terence Harmon 1:31:11

She's over here with me.

Gary Wise 1:31:12

Yeah, is she a mass chief now? She's eight, she's eight. I see her every day. She's a senior chief, but they both made senior chief, right? And I remember they were both chiefs in the medical department, and there was it was tough because she was IDC, he was a straight stick, but he had seniority, and again, talent management, right? Had to man had to manage them both, but they both got stars, yeah, right? They both got stars. But Kevin, for me, he was one of my first big challenges as a CMC, but he was bro, but I bet on it, man. I don't know, I don't know if he ever knows that. We never had that conversation, but I look at that tour as before he left and then after he left because that changed my and then when Louis came in, right? Because Louie brought a different energy.

Terence Harmon 1:32:00

Yeah, Louie picked up mine out here.

Chiefs’ Mess Dynamics And Turnaround

Gary Wise 1:32:03

Yeah, Louis and Louis brought a different energy, right? He was the team player from the jump, which was not as complicated, right? Because I think, uh yeah, for sure. Then the other challenge was, of course, managing my senior chiefs on board that ship because that was you you now know it's a CMC, right? There's a there's a reason why we say you can't trust even number G. Yeah, they could be crazy, bro. Uh okay. Uh, before we move off Ashland, what do you think? Because we did very well on that ship. Oh, yeah. We we went from being and look, I give our generation, I will tell you, we played a significant part in all the success that came to Ashland because it takes time for everything to play out. You don't just get a battle e and go green an insert because of what you did for the last two, three months, it's because what you did for the last two, three years. That's it, bro. Right? And so uh when we left the ship, because you and I left the ship and damn near the exact same day, right? Right, and do you remember what I how I was feeling when I left the ship? Did I talk to you about that?

Terence Harmon 1:33:19

Uh kind of about with with the uh skipper, the old skipper.

Gary Wise 1:33:24

No, not really with that. No, because Walson was the CO and the guy, not before him, nothing about that, dude. Not because that was a year past, right? Okay, that was a year past, but you were leaving, Chris was leaving. We had some new guys come in, yeah. Uh, but I remember I was done. I was done. Like, I would look around, and things were going so damn good that I was bored, man. I was like, I got nothing to do. I'm I'm just getting in people's way right now because we we had done so much work, we it was bloody at first, but I was up.

Terence Harmon 1:34:04

I used to tell people I'm up to my elbows and just blood because we was just having to you didn't talk about it there in Sasebo, but me and you was walking up the street in your coat. We had come up there for trail, and I you had got the words you was going to blue red. You talked about it then, you were yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.

Gary Wise 1:34:22

And I had put it into the universe, bro. I had prayed and I had said, God, you know, like I feel like and I was even thinking about retirement, right? I really was even, yeah, bro, because I did what I wanted to do. I was a CMC of a ship, but some of it just left me with a bad taste in my mouth, right? Yeah, and you know me, bro. Um I'm I don't play, like I'll tell you, I can't just keep it to myself. If I got a if we got a problem, let's meet in the mess. We're gonna have a conversation, right? We're gonna get to it, right? However, you want to do it. However, you want to do it, I'm here for it. But I was thinking about like, you know, like I I don't know that I want to keep doing this over and over again. I did it once, but my family, I was worried about them, I was worried about just the stress of doing the job, and I didn't know that that it was going to continue to pay off, right? And here's the other thing for me, bro, that's a hard ship to beat. Like what we did on Ashland was super special. I don't know that we would ever do that again anywhere else. Oh no, man. No, you know what I'm saying? Like, how where we went from being a ship that had so many things that were not going well to being literally the best in the Pacific, right? Like we were, and we knew we were, we knew we were, right? You you could everything that came our way, we cracked it out the park. It got to be where we remember we used to say just no redo, right? No redo, no redo. No redoes, and we would we would line it up and be in the right order, we get in the mess, and we would just talk it out for the next however long, and then we would just execute, right? Um, it was it was and so I I was thinking I'm never gonna beat this. So what if I just punched out and went on to do something else for my own life, then that seventh fleet job came, right? Um, and I looked at that as a blessing in some ways, in other ways, it was not a blessing. But what that what that job showed me was I don't want to go into that world, right? Like that was it was some sucker stuff for me, bro. Like being a flag that nah, that's not for me, that's for some people, yeah, but not for me, right? Um, but I was ready to go, and so that that worked out when you left Ashland. Uh you were as a senior chief, and you were going to NECC in Virginia, Little Creek, yep. Little Creek, and I remember being worried for you because I knew what your goals were, but I felt like that staff duty was not the best place, yes, right? I'm being honest with you. I but you got there and you, you know, Steve Steve Watson, he always talks to me about planting blooming where you're planted, right? Like you can't always control where you get put in the ground, but you can't control how much sun you I mean, you can you can make the best out of the situation. Yeah, is that what happened for you in NECC?

Terence Harmon 1:37:43

Oh my god, bro, went there and killed it. One of 31 went there and killed it. Those and I went there with those B's, man, those CBs. I don't know. I guess I just love MAs, but it was uh it's like the brown water side of the house. And I got up there into that MA shop, um, took over uh ATO and ran it. I got there, same position. Somebody got in trouble. Uh, number one, number one MP next year, number three EP leaving up out of there, 5-0, number one. And it wasn't a transfer EP, it was an actual write-up 5-0 EP. And that's what pushed me over. I got down there with the CBs and first time up, M A C M.

Gary Wise 1:38:22

Well, and we were writing your evals pretty strong for the CFC program, right? And I would tell you, strategically, strategically for me, that's telling the board, you make this guy a mass chief, he's gonna convert over to the program, you're gonna get that bill of back for your community in the next year, right? Now, some people just do that and they don't convert over to CMC, let's be honest. They just they just hedging their bets, right? But I'm at the board. I don't know if you sat the have you sat the board yet?

Terence Harmon 1:38:53

Yeah, I said it at 24.

Gary Wise 1:38:55

So you know at the board, those are the kinds of things you're gonna talk about, right? Like this guy could go CMC or MACM, so he's a dual threat. That's gonna give you some some value over someone who's not writing their emails that way, right? And strategically, that was always my strategy for the guys that you know that I thought would be good for the program or be good to go into that community, right? And for CBs, I got the chance to work with a bunch of them over in Guam. Here's my I love them dudes because they so real, they they are they I love them, bro. They offensive, they they are. I love them for that, bro. Like, I they are not gonna stab you, they'll stab you right in the front. I love that part. Like I can have a good knife fight. I like that part. I hate when I get stuck in the back, I don't see it coming, and you snuffing me, right? I don't like that. Yeah, so I could see where they were suspecting your get down, and then of course, you had uh that captain that came off of the New Orleans, or is he on Green Bay? He was the Green Bay skipper, Nate, Nate Moyer. Yeah, he's another real one. Yep, he's another real one, right? Like that dude is a real one, bro. Like I feel like he, I think he is he retired, right?

Terence Harmon 1:40:18

Oh, yeah, he gave it up after he left. Um after he left the NECC because he went back as the cause.

Gary Wise 1:40:24

See, I'll tell you what, I don't think I think the Navy missed out on one that making him an admiral because he would have been amazing, right? Oh yeah, uh he was just a solid guy, man. Yeah, he was. So you pick up Master Chief out of NECC, right? Are you at the end of your tour then when you make it?

Terence Harmon 1:40:45

Um yeah, that was a high tenure. That was um 20 had 26 in. I'm going to some light gear. Hold on, but hold on, I'm going to some light.

Gary Wise 1:40:54

Okay, no worries. No worries. Bro, gotta go to the other wing of his house.

Terence Harmon 1:41:14

Dark as hell, that's good. Yeah, I um I pick up uh nine and put in for the program first time up. Can you see me? Can you hear me?

Gary Wise 1:41:32

Yeah, I can see you, I can hear you. So you you pick up Master Chief and you apply for the CMC program. Uh did you think about not applying for the program? Or did you like did you think about no?

Terence Harmon 1:41:45

I I no because you remember remember I told you on the ship I wanted to do it, so I I knew I was gonna do it. Yeah, and uh Brian Bellave, he was the CMC down there. Yeah, you know Brian? I do.

NECC Staff Win And Master Chief

Gary Wise 1:41:56

Well, I know we yeah, we we spoke about you as a matter of fact, right? We spoke about you as a matter of fact. He hit me up offline, we talked about you. Um, and then of course we've networked, right? So I don't think we've I don't think we've ever crossed paths in person, but we're connected and we've spoke we spoke about you a few times, and then just like in general, right? Especially when I was retiring and he was working, and I had and when I was in Guam working with the CBs, right?

Terence Harmon 1:42:24

Right.

Gary Wise 1:42:25

Um I remember so and the reason why I asked is because I remember when I made DC Master Chief, right? And I I'm not gonna lie, I thought about not going to CMC for a hot minute, right? Because I thought about like okay, I'm a master chief now, and I made master chief in 16 years, and so I was like, Do I do I go to the program? Do I not go to the program? I was kind of hemming and hot. I but then I was like, I gotta put my money where my mouth is. I sold everybody I was gonna go, like I gotta go ahead and stand out of business and go hand, go do that, right? Um, right. So you you I when you applied for the program, uh and you got it, right? Um, what was your first CMC duty station? Do you remember?

Terence Harmon 1:43:10

Oh, yeah, Okinawa. So really, I I I stayed in for him because I was, you know, they call it the fro in the CB world. I think we call it Umbudsman, but they call it the fro, the uh family readiness officer. So I I was you're right, I was due to retire. I was due to retire again, and um they kept me back while they were on deployment in Spain because the CBs in Gulfport, they go to Spain back six months, Spain. Well, you know, 12 months in port and then six months in Spain. So they while they were in Spain, the results came out. Uh had made MACM and then they left me behind to be the um family readiness officer. And you know, you put right you put the you put the package in right after you make nine, and shit, I come right up and I made it. So I got my first taste of being a little bit, you know, see them you know, sitting in the seat for him while he was gone. Yeah, six months while they were gone. Um knocked it out the box, knocked it out the park. And my first one was back to Okinawa, back to Japan, the third medical battalion. I went greenside.

Gary Wise 1:44:08

Third medical battalion, and I remember us having that conversation, and you were asking me, like, hey Gary, you what do you think? You go to a ship, and I think I gave you the advice to not go to a ship. Um, and I'll be honest with you, T. When I look back on my career, I think that if I would have not gone to a ship, it might have been different.

Terence Harmon 1:44:28

Really?

Gary Wise 1:44:29

Like if I would have gone to an aviation squadron or something like that. Yeah, that shit took a lot out of me, bro. Like that, that and uh I just looking back on it, I think that uh while it was so great for a lot of things, it set up my trajectory to go a different way. Does that make sense?

Terence Harmon 1:44:50

Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:44:51

Like because you know in the CMC community, people start pulling you down a road and it's almost like you can't stop it, right? And I was so immature that and I wanted to get off the ship that when the opportunity came, I took it. Right. And then when I was at Seventh Fleet Staff, believe it or not, regardless of what happened with Erica and her medical and people and their fraternization or whatever it was, truth be told, I had already prayed that prayer of I'm done here. Like 18 months and I got the job done. And I'm looking around, no, at Seventh Fleet Staff.

Terence Harmon 1:45:28

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:45:29

Seventh Fleet. I already knew 18 months, I was done. I was already looking at the window, like, I don't like this place, I'm ready to go. But and so then the universe, the universe does not always know, it doesn't always communicate in a way you want it to, but it will give you what you ask them for, right? And I got that, and then in Guam, I was done in two years, but I had to stay there for another year to retire, and then that last year was hell because it was just I'm waiting to go, right? Waiting to go somewhere, and people are jackasses, yeah.

Terence Harmon 1:46:04

Yep, and you know what's funny?

Gary Wise 1:46:07

Hey, but you know what? Still standing, dog, still standing straight out two, two toes, ten toes down, baby, right? Yes, sir, and let my let my voice be heard, and that's it. And it's just not everyone's gonna understand what people are trying to do. So, when you got to the medical battalion in in Okinawa, you've got FTNF experience, you're now the command master chief. How was that tour for you as a CMC?

Terence Harmon 1:46:37

So, being that I had plenty of leadership, I just had to learn that medical terminology, and just like I'm blessed blessed with this tour, man. I had two HMCMs there, so they I let them run the you know, run the bodies. I just took care of the CO and Exo.

Gary Wise 1:46:51

So it's it's and that's green side stuff too, right? Like y'all are working with the Marines, so you're dealing with the Sergeant Major. How was that?

Terence Harmon 1:47:00

Oh, it was good, it worked out well. He wasn't power, he wasn't that power hunger with type one, you know, and a lot of us young, so you know, being young, you know, they make Sergeant Majors real young, 19, 20 years. So they look up to that, you know, that that time end. So they didn't too much, you know, give me no the hard time or anything. And it's so many Sergeant Majors out there in Okinawa because you got Hawson, you got you got Shields, you got um you got six or seven bases out there, Marine Corps bases, you know.

Gary Wise 1:47:31

Well, and you had that greenside time with Ashland where you got the chance to learn to work with Marines and speak right people don't understand. We had such a good working relationship with the Marines when I was there, yeah, that we we was we were team, we was a team, yeah, right. Uh and you had Chris Moore when you were down there as well, right? He was yeah, and he's solid, right? He was a HMCM that converted CMC, did all that green side stuff. And yeah, was you there with Dan Field too, or did you relieve Dan? Is that what happened?

Terence Harmon 1:47:59

Dan Fields? No, no, Dan Phil was down there with you. He was down there with you on Seventh Fleet.

Gary Wise 1:48:04

But before he was Seventh Fleet, though, he was in he was down the third ML.

Terence Harmon 1:48:08

Yeah, he probably spent something down in Oakie. He did, he probably did.

Gary Wise 1:48:10

Yeah, he did. Um was that an 06 command?

Terence Harmon 1:48:15

Yeah, it was. Yeah, I got I come out doing 06 commands.

Gary Wise 1:48:19

Okay. How big was your first Chiefs master of the CMC?

Terence Harmon 1:48:24

Uh 22.

Gary Wise 1:48:27

Okay.

Terence Harmon 1:48:28

22, and this one right here with the um ITs and ETs. I think I'm sitting at 30.

Gary Wise 1:48:33

Okay. And so then when you got, I knew you wanted to go to uh to Bahrain. Uh is you and your reasons for that was just because you liked the overseas lifestyle, you enjoy being the mission set. Uh, how much different was it going to Bahrain as a CMC than when you did it in your past life?

CMC Path And Greenside Okinawa

Terence Harmon 1:48:54

Oh, very different. Very different. Yeah because I was, I mean, I I knew I know the MA lingo. I'm with a bunch of geeks, man.

Gary Wise 1:49:03

Okay.

Terence Harmon 1:49:04

Yeah. Yeah. These kids are smart, super duper smart. Uh, but yeah, a bunch of ITs and ETs. But you have to know that uh who were we just talking about? They're in the same, they're in the same field with me. Me and I was just talking about them. Uh oh, Steve. Steve's at IWTG. So he's Brunder. He's where? Uh he was with IWTG, but he just took another 05 command because I just saw it in the um weekly. He was with um, he was back in VA with a computer command. But he was in Bahrain? No, no, no, no. VA, Little Creek. He was in Little Creek.

Gary Wise 1:49:40

Oh, but he was doing the information warfare. Right, right. He's still in the Navy. Like, I look at what I I'm still in that group, right? So I still see all the emails and I still see all of the uh advertisements for the weekly or whatnot. You know, God bless the guys that are still doing it. God, you know, I knew that. I wanted to get out and start working on my life after the Navy earlier because you know I got a lot of goals. I got things that I'm working on for my family and for my kids. Uh but some of these guys I watch them do the jobs of their goals. I'm just I hope they're able to keep their energy.

Terence Harmon 1:50:15

Oh and he's he's way behind me, so I don't think he's even at 30 yet.

Gary Wise 1:50:20

No, no, he was young, he was young, but I remember multiple conversations. He would tell me he was gonna retire, gonna get out, whatever. Um but but people I know they're afraid to get out, man. And it's yeah, everyone comes to it their own way, right? Everyone comes to their own time because it just it it's all it's hard to leave something you gave so much of your life to, and then to go do something else. It's always bittersweet a little bit, right? It's always bittersweet a little bit. I think what I think the Navy, I think the armed forces should change their retirement to being like 60 years old, as long as you can meet all the requirements for your age group and do everything. People might have I might have stuck around, you know. If you're telling me I gotta get out no matter what at 50 years old, then I'm already looking at the door, bro. Like I'm thinking twice about what I'm doing because I know what I want, and yeah, that's it, right? And I feel like they're missing an opportunity for that, me personally. Um, okay, so now you're getting ready to retire.

Terence Harmon 1:51:29

10 months, baby.

Gary Wise 1:51:31

And is there is there a reason why you're choosing to retire or not? Because you can go past 30 now as a CMC instead of no sister, man.

Terence Harmon 1:51:38

Right, right.

Gary Wise 1:51:39

Is there are you just ready to go?

Terence Harmon 1:51:41

Yeah, and it's a such thing as uh uh age waiver in the real world, and she's ready, she's ready. Wife is ready, so I've done my time.

Gary Wise 1:51:51

Yeah, you did you did you bro, you not only did your time, you took time back, homie. You took time back, like 12 years over, right? You did that. No, you you man, again, I I think you you took you seize the opportunity, bro. Not everyone recognizes when opportunities are passing them by, they can just reach out and grab it, right? Right? Some people so busy complaining, they miss the chances right in front of them, right? To make it work. I and then God did, right? God did right for sure. Okay, all right, man. We're gonna get ready to land this thing here. Uh, I'm gonna come through with some quick questions for you. Okay, don't nuke it. Okay, right, just kind of answer the questions and we will wrap this thing up. Sound good?

Terence Harmon 1:52:41

Sound good.

Gary Wise 1:52:42

All right, let's go. Uh, let's see here, make this come up. All right. Do you remember when was the first moment that you were just like, damn, I'm really in the navy, bro? Like, do you remember when it hit you? Was it when you got to the moose burger? Was it boot camp?

Terence Harmon 1:53:04

Yeah, boot camp. When I got asthma twice, and I was like, Hey, I'm in this thing, man. That was it. Hey, her and I talk about that all the time. She's like, You too busy trying to chase these women, that's why your butt got set back twice. Yeah. Well, I know I'm in the game then. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:53:23

You know, I had a I had a young man in my class this week. I had to hold him accountable for something, right? And the way I am, I'm not just I'm not really gonna hit you in your grade, right? Because for me, that's like, in my opinion, that's too real. I'd rather I'd rather hit you with a collateral duty hit, right? Things you care about, right?

Terence Harmon 1:53:42

I'll take it away from me.

Bahrain As CMC And IT/ET World

Gary Wise 1:53:45

Well, and you know that I believe don't ever fire somebody without having a way to hire them in the future, right? You gotta give them a chance to recover, right? But I gotta make it sting to the point that you recognize I'm not playing with you no more, right? And and I and I and I did that, right? And I and I made sure he felt that consequence so much so uh and actually hit him with the first one because he was disrespectful, right? I'm teaching the class, he got up on a cell phone when I'm teaching, you're not supposed to do that. And when I when I was going to get him from where I had sent him to, all he had to do was apologize, and we would have been good, but he didn't do that, he had negative energy, like I did him wrong, right? I'm like, okay, bro, you're not that's not gonna work for me. You don't understand, you messed up, and so now I'm gonna double tap you real quick and really hit you hard. And uh I like two days later, his mom called me up and she was like, Hey, Master Chief, you know, he's really upset. Uh, we and we talked like 45 minutes on a conversation, yeah. And I said, ma'am, if he would have just came to me and just said, see, I'm sorry, man, I did we would have already moved on. I already got a path to get him right. I said, But because you called me and you had this conversation, I'll extend the grace to you and we'll work it out. But he needs to understand that in life there's consequences, and you don't always need to dictate what the result is, right? And that's how I see you getting those asthmos, right? Getting asthmatical in boot camp. That's you getting hit with the consequences of your actions, and and you just having to process how to deal through that, right? Yep, yeah, and and look, you're in the military, you're gonna get institutionalized. If you don't, you're gonna suffer, right? If you don't buckle, if you don't break, you're gonna suffer. You've got to learn how to process it and learn how to work within work within the rule book a little bit.

Terence Harmon 1:55:44

That's it, right? And that you gotta know how to move, man. Like we say, you gotta know how to move. You have to know how to move.

Gary Wise 1:55:49

Gotta be able to walk up, you gotta be able to walk underwater, move for the room full of vultures, right? Like Jay-Z said. You gotta be able to move with a room full of vultures. I still I still think like that to this day. Your Mac Mac T said, you gotta dance underwater, not get wet, man.

Terence Harmon 1:56:02

You wet.

Gary Wise 1:56:04

All right, uh what do you what do you see, Mac? Or I I call you Mac because you know he's my MAC, but T, what do you see, T, as being one of the biggest leadership challenges for people today?

Terence Harmon 1:56:20

Trying to be friends with their sailors with their subordinates.

Gary Wise 1:56:25

Trying to be yeah, yeah, you know, it's tough, bro, especially when you care. Yeah, right, because you care, and so you and and and you want them to care about you in return, but it can get real shitty real quick.

Terence Harmon 1:56:42

Yeah, man. Yep, yep, because they'll flip the script when they don't get their way, they will flip the script, man.

Gary Wise 1:56:47

Oh, a thousand percent, man. And you gotta and you gotta ride it out too. You gotta ride it out, and it can be lonely at the top.

Terence Harmon 1:56:55

Uh I get it, bro. You know, out of all people, you know.

Gary Wise 1:56:59

Oh, I know, but that's why you gotta keep people like your wife, like my Erica for me, for you, Marshallia, uh, people you can network with, and people that really know who you are, and they know that you know, because you can't control it when you step into the arena and you're the man in the arena, you know, you can't control the shots that are gonna come your way. You know, I used to, when I was at Guam, I would do these town halls, right? You know, family town halls, especially during COVID. Especially during COVID, right? And you know, when you oversees town halls, people just go for the fireworks, right?

Terence Harmon 1:57:36

Right? Oh, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:57:37

People want to go see the CMC get asked some crazy question, yeah, or the CO get asked some crazy question, or the Admiral, right? I used to get in the front of the whole movie theater and I'd be like, hey, look, y'all know me, so go ahead and throw whatever fruit you want to throw at me. Just know I throw back.

Terence Harmon 1:57:54

Right.

Gary Wise 1:57:55

Yeah, I throw back, and they nobody want to try me because they knew I was gonna hit them with that. Hey, I'm gonna keep it on it, which and my CO was a war fighter too, so we had no problems. Right. Oh, okay. As a dad, and you've got you've now got adult children. Uh and are you a grandfather now?

Terence Harmon 1:58:15

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Gary Wise 1:58:16

So you so you a granddaddy on top of that. Is there a way that you would recommend to parents to best use leadership skills in helping to raise their children as a parent? Any advice there?

Terence Harmon 1:58:30

Um I know you say not to Duke it. Um you know, believe it or not, man. I never I I never got a whooping. Never. No switch or nothing. I just got those stern talking to's, and that that mentality you said you just used on that kid, stuff they knew I liked, they take it away. That hurt me more than anything. Because they know I I I I guess they knew probably like hitting me, they probably like, okay, this dude, he he's gonna forget about it anyway and do back, go back doing what he was doing. I think that stern talking to, but they continuously talk to him, you know. Because I my oldest, he's he's he's been to the pen. He he had to realize my oldest AJ, he was with me in Oki. Um some crazy, just dumb stuff, being dumb, done a year in the pen, but got out, and that's the one got me the two granddaughters. But he got his wife together now, works for UPS, does very well in Atlanta.

Gary Wise 1:59:30

You know, I think communication is always one of the main things, right?

Terence Harmon 1:59:34

You gotta communicate with them.

Gary Wise 1:59:35

Hey, I remember I used to tell you when the sailors are talking, we're doing okay, yeah. Right? But the more information they give us, the better we're doing. It's with that way, at least we know what they're saying.

Terence Harmon 1:59:46

Hey, that that um that E3 underground, that's a real thing, man. It really is that underground, yeah. Those kids know everything, they know everything.

Gary Wise 1:59:56

The sailors always know, bro. I I say the same thing to my students. I tell them the students always know. So, you know, the students always know it's the same thing. All right, um, what's a piece of advice you would give to someone struggling? Like when you was at the White Beach, right, as an MA1, and you were stuck in traffic, um, or even at that brig duty, coming to the end of your time in the Navy and and just trying to figure out what you're gonna do in life. What's a piece of advice you would give to somebody that feels like they're struggling within an organization and they're not really getting uh the recognition they feel like they deserve?

Terence Harmon 2:00:36

I got two pieces of that, Gary. Like on you know one of them by heart, man. I love it when somebody tells me no. That that makes me thrive. Let no one tell you no, and I I go by a storm, period. You're in a storm, going through a storm, you're coming out of a storm. But once you come out of that storm, you know everything's gonna be brighter. You you have to go through something to get what you want because if it's easy, it's not worth it. You're gonna have to go through something.

Gary Wise 2:01:02

That's a bar. That's a bar. I love it. Okay, uh, let's go ahead and move on to some easier stuff now. Hey, it's Saturday night, we're on the ship, we're going to the mess. What you looking forward to, bro? The pizza or the wings?

Terence Harmon 2:01:18

The wings, the wings, okay.

Gary Wise 2:01:22

The wings. All right, so I hey bro. I need someone either in the birthing cleaners or the working party. Which one do you want?

Terence Harmon 2:01:29

Birthing. Birthing. I guess birthing warrior.

Gary Wise 2:01:36

We're gonna watch a movie in the mess. You want to watch De Niro or Pacino?

Terence Harmon 2:01:40

Pacino.

Gary Wise 2:01:42

Pacino, all right. Hey, looking back on your career, do you have a favorite duty station? Okie Okinawa?

Terence Harmon 2:01:52

Yeah, but ship-wise, first ship's always the best, you know. Hey, we were tight, tight, tight-knit group of guys. I still keep in touch with some of those guys, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:02:00

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, uh, looking back on your career, what was your favorite Liberty Port?

Terence Harmon 2:02:06

Peru. Peru?

Gary Wise 2:02:09

Yeah, really?

Terence Harmon 2:02:10

Yeah, okay. I hit that in '96 and '98. Peru and and Rio. Yeah.

Gary Wise 2:02:18

Okay. Uh, looking back on your career, what was the hardest qualification you ever had you ever achieved?

Terence Harmon 2:02:25

This IW pen.

Gary Wise 2:02:28

Did you get it?

Terence Harmon 2:02:29

Yeah, finally.

Gary Wise 2:02:31

Good for you. I got my IW pin at seven fleet. It was, it's a whole new thing, right? Yeah. Yeah, good for you, man. Good for you. All right. If you, I think I know your answer to this, but I'm gonna ask if you ever gave advice to somebody, would you tell me to do overseas duty or a state side?

Terence Harmon 2:02:47

Oh, yeah, overseas, most definitely. FDNF, that's you're gonna promote there. FDN, you're gonna promote. If you do what you need to do, hit that FDNF random, you're gonna promote.

Gary Wise 2:02:58

Man, I tell you, I love promotion. I love the fact that you can live off a modest income and you can invest and save a lot of money, yeah, right? Because you're not doing too much, and it's simple, right? Like it's a simple life. You're not out here worried about going to Best Buy and Target and all these other things that you think you need to be doing, but you don't really need to be doing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's 100%, man. That was one of the secrets to my anerrica's success for sure. Was that overseas time? Uh, yeah, set us up. Uh, do you have a favorite movie series? Um shoot, man.

Terence Harmon 2:03:37

Hey, I didn't got back on that banshee, man. I got Marcella on it. Banshee is wild, bro.

Gary Wise 2:03:44

Yeah, yeah. That show. Hey, I can't wait for that mayor of uh what's it called to come out again? King Town.

Terence Harmon 2:03:51

Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:03:52

You got me into that one. You put me onto that one, and then uh let's see. Lincoln Lawyer. I never watched that one yet.

Terence Harmon 2:03:58

Really?

Gary Wise 2:03:59

I never watched that. Is that good?

Terence Harmon 2:04:01

Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:04:02

Yeah, watch it. So for those of you that are listening, huh?

Terence Harmon 2:04:05

Get on, we'll start watching it.

Gary Wise 2:04:07

Okay, for those of you that are listening, this is one of the conversations that we have. He'll hit me up like when you watch it. Yeah, yeah. All right, I but but the mayor of Kingstown is one you put me on to. And I'm glad they canceled that dang BMF thing, man. That was getting out of control, bro. There was like the damn Avengers, yeah.

Terence Harmon 2:04:26

So is it done? It's not coming back up.

Gary Wise 2:04:27

Yeah, he canceled it. Yeah, he canceled it. 50 got rid of that one, man. Okay, the boy got too caught too got too strong for himself.

Terence Harmon 2:04:34

Yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:04:35

All right, all right. T, would you rather be independent or on a team?

Terence Harmon 2:04:41

On a team, on a team. I love helping people, love helping.

Gary Wise 2:04:44

Yeah, I I do you have a personal leadership philosophy?

Terence Harmon 2:04:50

I think I pretty much that's it. Let no one tell you no.

Gary Wise 2:04:54

Let no one tell you no.

Terence Harmon 2:04:55

Yeah. You know what? I have one in my phone right here, man. This um scroll to this, Gary. You got a little too bit of time, brother?

Gary Wise 2:05:06

Yeah, yeah. We got time.

Terence Harmon 2:05:08

Okay. Man, I don't know if you can see it, but can you see that? You have to read it, bro. It says when a leader walks into the room, the followers feel intimidated. The snakes feel threatened, but the next leaders feel inspired.

Gary Wise 2:05:40

It's a great one, bro. I love it. I love it. I remember um I was on George Washington, and the commanding officer had all the khakis out there in formation, and he's just chewing us out, right? I'm a senior chief at the time, and he is just yelling at us all like we're horrible leaders. All the he's yelling at us in the hangar bay in front of sailors, right? I'll never forget. I had this guy on board the ship named TJ May. You're a big buff AOCM dude, right? Big, big, big dude, big dude. And we get done, and I'm trying to process what just happened, and everyone's already complaining, right? Officers, chiefs, everyone complaining. I look at TJ, and I he look like he ain't got a care in the world. And I was like, hey, TJ, man, what do you think about what the captain just said? He said, I don't think nothing about it, Gary. He wasn't talking to me. Game changer, bro. Like, that's why I learned the skill of saying stuff and watching how people react, right? Yep, you know, because I'll get them all in the room and I'll say something, I'll just watch people react, and I can tell, like, all right, I got him.

Terence Harmon 2:06:58

I got him, Coach.

Gary Wise 2:06:59

That's it.

Terence Harmon 2:07:00

That is what I tell those guys. I tell that man, I say the eyes tell all. If you think I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you. The eyes tell all.

Gary Wise 2:07:07

If you think I'm talking to you, I'm talking to you. Yep, that's it. Yes, it's not no more about it, come holler at me, coach. Come holler. Figure it out. Open door pop. Because you're not gonna get yeah, you're not gonna get nowhere, not asking. No, right? Close baths don't get fed. And if you think there's a problem, it probably is. Yep.

Terence Harmon 2:07:24

That's it.

Gary Wise 2:07:25

All right, we got in the mess, we got deck plate leadership, institutional, technical expertise, professionalism, character, loyalty, active communication, and a sense of heritage. Those are the guiding principles from our Chiefs mess. And out of those, which one is your favorite?

Terence Harmon 2:07:45

Deck plate leadership, man. Yeah, deck plate.

Gary Wise 2:07:49

Love it. Yeah, you gotta be out there on them deck plates, making doing it the right way, leading from the front. Yeah, all that working party, sharing the load, right? Down there with them kids, hand of the boxes, right? That's for sure. Say, all right, T, would you rather lead or follow?

Terence Harmon 2:08:07

You have to follow in order to lead. So I both of them. You have to start. You ain't gonna just jump in there leading. You're not just gonna jump in there leading, you know.

Quick-Fire Leadership And Life Lessons

Gary Wise 2:08:16

Yeah, yeah. No, no, and I think that it's a strategy, right? Uh yeah, look, how many times was I following y'all on the ship, right? Letting y'all lead because I didn't always want to be the one in that responsibility, that position. But being able to again, I think people get it misconstrued sometimes when it comes to being a leader. One of the best places for the Chiefs mass to be is back on the back on the tiller, right? Yeah, because you can control where the whole ship goes from aft steering. That's it, right? You don't control where the ship goes always from the pilot house or the bow. So if I've got to be able to be able to ship steering to aft steering, that's where I think the most important things are gonna make place. Because if you on the bow, you're not seeing what's going on behind you sometimes. But when you in the rear, you can see everything, right? I'm a fan of I love when the chief smash is in the center of the ship, too. Because when you in the you know, you on the mess sex, that's the stomach, that's the heart, that's where you gotta be.

Terence Harmon 2:09:17

The gut, the gut, the gut.

Gary Wise 2:09:18

That's it, bro. All right, man. You have any save rounds or alibi's, bro?

Terence Harmon 2:09:24

No, man. Thanks for having me on, man. Thanks for having me on. Where can I go view this at, Gary?

Gary Wise 2:09:29

Uh, I can send you a link to it because it's gonna be a minute before it comes out. I'm not gonna lie to you, bro. I got I probably got a good three months stocked up right now. I'm just kind of guys, huh? Well, you know, I got different, I got I got a bunch. I got one releasing today with Pete Santos. I you know, yeah, I was talking with uh uh Cap Wasson, you know, because he's coming down here to serve with me at the school, right? He's gonna be my next senior naval science instructor. And he was like, How do you got so many people that want to be on there? I just I've been blessed with getting to know a lot of people, yeah, and I think people see value in sharing their story and and then chopping it up, right? Chopping it up, and and you never know who you're gonna help. And I think it and it's just fun, right? It's a good chance to catch up, bro. Uh I want to tell you thank you. Uh, thank you for being a friend, for being an ally, right? A team player, uh, somebody that I was I've I just I've always appreciated you asking me anything you ask me and listening. And very few people what I say always did everything I said to do, right? Um, and that's my thought process is uh as if if somebody's ever someone's mentor, I like I don't I don't mentor people that are telling me no, I just don't got the time for it, right? At the end of the day, I I got enough friends. So if we're gonna work together, I need you to try to see where I'm coming from and get after it. And you went from being someone that I was possibly mentoring to not only getting what you needed to get, but going above and beyond and growing even past that skill. Hey, I've got multiple guys that are now CMCs out there in the Navy that were once upon a time uh younger chiefs working with me. But I'm very proud of you, bro. I'm very proud of you, I'm very proud to see what you've done, and I look forward to continuing to watch y'all do great things, man.

Terence Harmon 2:11:28

Yes, sir. Hey, September 25th, 2026, Mark and Gallon, man, right there in VA.

Gary Wise 2:11:33

I got it, man.

Terence Harmon 2:11:34

I got it, man.

Gary Wise 2:11:35

Gotta figure out to get up to VA, bro. I'm a teacher, dog.

Terence Harmon 2:11:39

I hear you, man. I hear you. We'll figure it out. It's a Friday, it's a Friday, so it's a Friday.

Gary Wise 2:11:45

We'll figure it out, man. How so, how are you doing a retirement in VA like that? You got a lot of people out there?

Terence Harmon 2:11:52

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of that old Moose Burger crews over there in that Delaware VA. So I'm down there with you in Florida. So, yeah, okay. Yeah.

Gary Wise 2:12:02

I was wondering about that. I was wondering why you picked VA to have your retirement ceremony there.

Terence Harmon 2:12:06

Cause I know a lot of them, a lot of them not gonna fly over here.

Gary Wise 2:12:08

So oh yeah, bro. Ain't no, I'm sorry, dog. Ain't no one going to no Bahrain, bro. Yeah I was supposed to take the boys to a wrestling event and it's over there in Dubai. I'm like, I'm not going to no Dubai to watch WWE. You crazy, dog. We're gonna watch that on pay-per-view.

Terence Harmon 2:12:25

Oh yeah, they have it all over here though, man. They have big time, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:12:29

Big time. All right, team, man. Y'all enjoy the rest of your weekend, bro. Highlights.

Terence Harmon 2:12:34

All right, bro. Be good, man.

Gary Wise 2:12:35

Happy Firthday, bro.

Closing Reflections And Future Plans

Speaker 2:12:37

And I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. Okay, for the critics, my words of life is it's a force that they can stop. They just don't get it. I think they forget, I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I believe, I believe, we can run.